6-27-23 Special Town Hall Adopted MinutesMINUTES
.-S% Vf, C, Town Hall Meeting
Tuesday, June 27, 2023 - 6:00 PM
`r Commission Chamber
City Hall, 800 Seminole Road
Atlantic Beach, FL 32233
ATTENDANCE:
Present: Bruce Bole, Commissioner - Seat 2
Michael Waters, Commissioner - Seat 3
Candace Kelly, Commissioner - Seat 4
Curtis Ford, Mayor - Seat 1
Jessica Ring, Commissioner - Seat 5
Also Present: Ladayija Nichols, Deputy City Clerk (DCC)
Joe Gerrity, Interim City Manager (CM)
Kevin Hogencamp, Deputy City Manager (DCM)
Steve Swann, City Engineer (CE)
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Ford called the meeting to order at 6:01 p.m.
TOPIC FOR DISCUSSION
Potential Water system expansion into Neptune Beach
• Staff Presentation
• Mayor's Comments
CM Gerrity gave a presentation (which is attached hereto and made a part of this Official
Record as Attachment A).
Mayor Ford mentioned that the most recent request from Neptune Beach (NB) was for
fire suppression purposes that pertained to 572 Atlantic Boulevard (Publix). He advised
that communications and updates regarding the potential water expansion could be found
on the City's website (http://coab.us/2065/Potential-Water-System-Extension-into-Ne).
He read off a list of questions that have been received (which is attached hereto and made
a part of this Official Record as Attachment B).
6-27-23 Attachment A
6-27-23 Attachment B
2 PUBLIC COMMENT
DCC Nichols called each speaker to the podium.
Town Hall
June 27, 2023
Nancy Staats mentioned that she is curious about what will be developed at the 500 Atlantic
Boulevard property. She expressed that it seems like there are still a lot of unanswered questions.
Jim Wheatley expressed concerns about potential parking and traffic issues that could be related
to this development.
Shelle Thole discussed concerns about the developer of the 500 Atlantic Blvd property.
Jackie Beckenbach mentioned that she agreed with the sentiments from Shelle Thole. She
expressed concerns about who would benefit from this development.
Hank Groff spoke about his love for the beach communities. He encouraged the Commission
to consider the effects of an increase in water usage over time.
Susanne Barker thanked the Commission for having this meeting and allowing the public to
share their thoughts. She mentioned that she feels AB should not provide water for the potential
development.
Carolyn Zisser communicated that she agrees with the previous comments made and expressed
concerns about how this topic came about.
Brinkley Harrell expressed concerns about fire emergency water usage. He also addressed
concerns about utility rates across the beach communities.
Pat Hazouri encouraged the Commission to not approve selling any water to the developer.
Cindy Anderson asked additional questions.
ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS ANSWERED
Mayor Ford answered the following questions:
Why would AB give water to NB at 125% of what is charged to AB residents and businesses.
- CM Gerrity informed that going above the 25% would require permission from the Public
Service Commission.
Why would AB provide water to the developer and not directly to the City of NB.
- Mayor Ford expressed that he would prefer an explicit request from the City Council of NB
requesting water.
Commissioner Bole shared that he would like to get the Riverkeepers' opinions. He informed
everyone that he doesn't know what the developer is building.
Commissioner Kelly communicated that it all depends on what is being built. She pointed out
that traffic is already an issue and that she is not quite reassured yet.
Town Hall
June 27, 2023
Commissioner Ring expressed concerns about the green tower and the developer not knowing
what's going to be built.
Mayor Ford expressed that he doesn't believe the developer under requested when asking for
water and that he is not concerned about what will be developed, his concern would be the
impact on traffic.
Commissioner Waters explained that this could be a frustrating process and that the decision
could take a while.
CE Swann explained that the pressure system is limited because of the height of the water
towers. He explained that the City is in the process of upgrading water plants. He shared that
Water Plant #1 should be completed by the end of this year. The earliest the City would
potentially be able to provide water to the development is at least two years out.
ADDITIONAL PUBLIC COMMENT
Carolyn Zisser commented that the City needs a formal request from NB.
Hank Groff encouraged the Commission to think about the finances of this potential
development.
Kenny Camish expressed concerns about the potential water expansion into NB.
Chris Rule, retired fire fighter from the City of Jacksonville Beach, shared his knowledge on
water tanks and fire suppression.
Jim Wheatley asked if anyone has researched the developers' company that is interested in
potentially receiving water from AB.
John Rating encouraged the Commission to take their time with this issue and think the matter
over carefully.
Carolyn Zisser asked a variety of questions.
Brinkley Harrell expressed concern for the funding that it could potentially take for a water
expansion.
ADDITIONAL DISCUSSION
Mayor Ford expressed that the City Attorney has been directed to not engage unless a formal
request was received from the Council of NB. He also mentioned that if there is an agreement
to be done, the City of AB would create it and let NB decide on how they would like to proceed.
Commissioner Bole explained that the City is still in the discovery stages of this potential
project and encouraged citizens to continue to put their questions in writing.
Commissioner Ring thanked everyone for attending the meeting and sharing their thoughts.
Town Hall
June 27, 2023
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 7:37 p.m.
Attest:
Donna L. Bartle, City Clerk
Date Approved: 71,4�2093
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Town Hall
June 27, 2023
WHY PROVIDE UTILITIES
TO 500 ATLANTIC BLVD,?.
❑ 2030 Comprehensive Plan
J Intergovernmental cooperation
LJ Revenue
WHY PROVIDE UTILITIES TO 500 ATLANTIC?
❑ COAB 2030 Comprehensive Plan,
The City shall coordinate and cooperate with adjacent
jurisdictions, other public and governmental agencies
to ensure: 1) the equitable and reasonable sharing of
authority, responsibility and resources in the provision
of services, education and housing, 2) the provision for
effective development review and permitting, and 3)
the effective representation on behalf of the City in
decisions related to future growth management,
planning and funding resources.
WHY PROVIDE UTILITIES TO 500 ATLANTIC?
LJ intergovernmental Cooperation
A valuable tool that helps local governments
improve the efficiency, quality, and
responsiveness of their services. Enhanced
problem -solving capacity also helps address
complex problems.
WHY PROVIDE UTILITIES TO 500 ATLANTIC?
EXAMPLES OF INTERGOVERNMENTAL COOPERATION
• Stormwater management. COAB stormwater runs off into
Hopkins Creek, which flows into Neptune Beach.
• Public safety mutual aid. Most recently, CON B provided
police coverage during COAB's personnel shortage and
during a critical emergency.
• Emergency management. Duval County's cities collaborate
year-round, along with during and after hurricanes and
other emergencies.
•
Sewage. JEA pays COAB to treat wastewater collected from
Mayport village.
WHY PROVIDE UTILITIES TO 500 ATLANTIC?
EXAMPLES OF INTERGOVERNMENTAL COOPERATION (CONT -#D)
• Public parking. CONB administers North Beaches Parking on
COAB's behalf.
• Beaches Town Center. The two cities collaborate to maintain,
improve the shared restaurant and shopping amenity, and
conduct community events.
• Atlantic Boulevard median. Shared COAB-CONB maintenance
agreement.
• Fire protection. Interlocal agreement with the City of
Jacksonville.
• Problem -solving. COAB is providing critical information -
technology consultation to CONB.
WHY PROVIDE UTILITIES TO 500 ATLANTIC?
❑Revenue
The fees charged to customers outside of the
city is 125% the fee COAB receives from
customers within the city limits. This 25%
surcharge helps finance and operate the
infrastructure COAB needs to assure, modern,
reliable and environmentally sustainable water
and wastewater treatment systems.
ADDITIONAL
INFORMATION
www.coab.us/projects
Attachment B to
6-27-23 Minutes
Comments on 500 Atlantic Water & Sewer Questions
Green = CONB comments
Blue = COAB comments
How did this need for water come about? There have been businesses operating in
the Neptune Beach shopping center for decades, including several grocery stores. Why
is there currently a need for an increased supply of water?
This is a question of both potable and fire flow needs. Possibly the previous users of water at 500
Atlantic didn't need as much as the projected project. After working through zoning with CONE,
the developers approached COAB with a certain potable water demand that might need refining.
With respect to fire flow needs at 572 Atlantic, NFPA requirements have become more stringent
over the years. Once 572 was redeveloped, it became subject to those updated standards.
Did Neptune Beach study their existing water resources prior to approving the new
projects?
The developer planned a certain development. CONB approved the development under zoning
which is unrelated to utility service. When the developer requested a verification of utility
availability, that is when the inability to provide service was discovered, and they then approached
COAB.
There is a water tank behind the new Publix store which has caused some objection
from neighbors behind the shopping center. The City of Neptune Beach has promised
to remove it. Is this why they now need help from Atlantic Beach to Increase their
access to water?
Yes, the agreement is the tank comes down once the fire flow is secured from COAB via the pipe
to be built across Atlantic Boulevard by developers of 500. The fire flow connection is zero impact
to COAB ... unless there's a fire.
What exactly is Neptune Beach asking for? Just water for fire suppression for Publix and
the neighboring stores? Water for fire suppression plus everyday use for Publix and the
other stores? Water for fire suppression plus any everyday use for Publix, adjacent
stores and future projects that would be constructed on the Kmart section of the
shopping center? Are sewer services included in the request at any level?
CONB is supplying potable water and sewer service to 572. COAB would provide potable water and
sewer services to the proposed 500 Atlantic, thereby deriving revenue for its utility which has the
capacity to serve according to COAB. The potable water used by COAB and CONB comes from the
same aquifer, and both utilities are permitted and regulated by St. Johns River Water Management
District. Both utilities have sufficient permit capacity to serve 500 and 572; the issue for CONB is
that its piping grid is insufficient to provide the needed water to 500.
Is this an interim remedy for Neptune Beach's problem? Do they have plans for an
Attachment B to
6-27-23 Minutes
Infrastructure project that will provide water in the future? Would an agreement
between Atlantic and Neptune Beach have a sunset date or regular renewal periods?
CONB's goal is for its utilities to serve the needs of everyone in its community. CONB is reviewing
the hydraulic model created by JEA to understand what piping improvements would be required,
estimated costs and construction timelines.
If Atlantic Beach declines this agreement, does Neptune Beach have a Plan B to address its
need for water?
As noted previously, CONB's goal is to serve everyone in its community and is reviewing
infrastructure options.
What would be the actual usage request in numbers? How much water does Atlantic
Beach currently use per day and how much more would be needed to meet the Neptune
Beach request? What percentage of our water resources are they requesting?
The developer of 500 Atlantic is estimating their maximum demand at 88,200 gallons per day
(gpd). COAB currently pumps an average of 2.4 million gpd from the Floridan aquifer and is
permitted to pump up 3.75 million gpd. The developer's request represents approximately 3.5%
of our current demand and about 2.3% of our overall permitted pumping capacity. With respect to
impacts to the Floridan aquifer, it makes no difference whether the potable water provided to 500
Atlantic comes from COAB or CONB, we both draw our water from the same source
There was a study performed by J. Collins regarding this water issue. Does the
information in the report add additional context to such an agreement? How much
has Atlantic Beach spent to date on studies or reports regarding this issue?
The work performed by J. Collins & Associates was strictly a technical feasibility analysis
regarding COAB's ability to provide potable water and sewer service to 500 Atlantic without
negatively impacting existing customers. Cost for this work was approximately $2,500.
If Atlantic Beach agrees to provide water to Neptune Beach, would there still be
adequate water to meet our future needs? Would this provide increased stress on
our current infrastructure? Would it affect our Atlantic Beach water/sewer rates?
There unequivocally is adequate water to meet our future needs. Our current
Consumptive Use Permit for water withdrawals, which is valid through 2039, allows us
to sustainably withdraw as much as 3.75 million gallons per day and our current
withdrawal rate is about 2.4 million gallons per day. Between COAB's three potable
water treatment plants, we have the ability to pump over 6 million gallons per day.
Adding the proposed 500 Atlantic water demand to our system will not increase stress
on our system. especially since \ATP No. 1 is currently undergoing a modernization
Attachment B to
6-27-23 Minutes
project and WTP No. 2 is scheduled to be upgraded next year
Providing water and sewer service to 500 Atlantic will not affect our current rates. In
fact, the addition of 500 Atlantic will result in them paying -$280,000 in system
development charges that will help offset the cost of the planned work at the water
treatment plants
If Atlantic Beach agrees to provide water to Neptune Beach, would the agreement be
between the two cities or between Atlantic Beach and the developers/owners of the
Neptune Beach shopping center. Who would pay for the actual infrastructure work? What
would happen if the developers/owners go out of business?
The agreement will be between the developer, COAB and CONB. The developer will pay for the
infrastructure work required to connect the development to the COAB water and sewer system. If
the developer goes out of business, the water meter serving the development will be removed and
there will be no demands on our system until a new owner requests service and CONB is unable to
provide that service.
Is there any precedent for Atlantic Beach supplying water and sewer outside our city
limits, for example, the area along Mayport Road up to Mayport Village that is technically
the City of Jacksonville? How has that arrangement worked and has it provided any
benefit to Atlantic Beach?
The City bought the Buccaneer Service District, which is outside of the city limits, a number of
years ago. JEA provides water and sewer service in Mayport Village. However, JEA pumps
wastewater to our system for treatment under agreement where they pay us for service. In the
late 1980s, we also had an agreement between the developer, COAB and CONB to provide water
and sewer service for a limited period of time to the shopping center where the existing Publix is
located. However, we do not believe service by COAB was ever provided as CONB was able to
extend service to the development.
The ability to provide these services outside of our city limits benefits Atlantic Beach by ensuring
that wastewater produced in our area is adequately treated and does not result in polluting the
marsh areas and also ensures that residents and businesses in our area have a clean, safe and
reliable source of potable water and fire protection. The system development charges applied to
new connections and the monthly service fees charged to customers outside of the city augments
the fees we receive from customers within the city limits to help us finance and operate, through
an economies of scale, the infrastructure we need to assUre modern, reliable and environmentally
sustainable water and wastewater treatment systems
In January 2023, the Commissioners of Atlantic Beach agreed on two priorities for this
year that pertain to water use. They are 1) to decrease overall water consumption in the
City; and, 2) to make progress toward the new state mandated net zero deposit of sewer
Attachment B to
6-27-23 Minutes
discharge into the Intracoastal Waterway. Will providing water to Neptune Beach make
it more difficult for Atlantic Beach to advance these priorities?
The Commission priority is to reduce residential water consumption by 15%. Providing service
to 500 Atlantic does not impact our efforts to reach that goal as 500 Atlantic is a commercial
development. With respect to the state mandated zero discharge of treated wastewater to the
St. Johns River by 2032, the wastewater expected to be produced by 500 Atlantic is a small
incremental increase in the overall daily volume of wastewater treated by COAB.
Could an agreement of this type produce a new income stream for Atlantic Beach? What
could these new dollars be used for?
500 Atlantic will be required to pay a substantial system development charge and will be charged
for monthly water and sewer use plus a 25% surcharge, similar to our other existing customers
located outside of the city limits. This income stream will be utilized within the water and sewer
systems to fund operations and continued infrastructure improvements. Much of the COAB
water and sewer system is of advanced age and fees collected from 500 Atlantic will be utilized
as prioritized by our capital improvement plant where necessary throughout our system for
rehabilitation and replacement of water and sewer pipelines and improvements at our treatment
facilities. Monthly fees will also be utilized to augment funds required for system operation and
maintenance.
It seems like staff in both cities have been the ones studying and discussing this issue.
Why has it not been addressed in a significant way by the Atlantic Beach City
Commission?
When the City of Neptune Beach determined it could not adequately provide water and sewer
service to 500 Atlantic Beach, the City of Neptune Beach agreed to allow the developer to
approach the City of Atlantic Beach to provide the utilities. Current efforts, involving minimal staff
time, have been centered solely on the technical feasibility of providing service to 500 Atlantic. The
purpose of this effort was to inform the developer if their request was technically feasible (typical
effort for any large commercial request for service) and to be able to provide the Commission with
defensible data if and when an official request is made by CONB and the developer.
Mayors in our three beach cities often say we are three cities but one community. Is there
a fundamental reason for us to share our water with Neptune Beach? What will be the
impact on Atlantic Beach specifically and the community in general if we don't agree to
this request?
If our neighboring City has a need where COAB can assist without impacting our finances or
residents, it behooves us to at least consider the request (although a specific request has not been
made yet) If this request is not agreed to there will be no specific impact to COAB. However, the
Attachment B to
6-27-23 Minutes
proposed scale of redevelopment of the 500 Atlantic may have to be reassessed by the developer.