7-16-24 CDB Adopted MinutesMINUTES
Ago& Community Development Board (CDB) Meeting
Tuesday, July 16, 2024 - 6:00 PM
City Hall, Commission Chamber
800 Seminole Road, Atlantic Beach, FL 32233
Present: Kirk Hansen, Chair
Jennifer Lagner, Member
Harold Gear, Member
Richard Arthur, Member
Ellen Golombek, Vice Chair
Jeff Haynie, Member
Absent: Angela Farford, Member
Gregory (Greg) Beliles, Alternate Member
Also Present: Amanda Askew, Planning & Community Development Dir. (PCDD)
Abrielle Genest, Planner
Valerie Jones, Recording Clerk
Robert Graham, Acting City Attorney
1. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL
The meeting was called to order at 6:00 p.m. by Chair Hansen.
2. NEW BUSINESS
A. 1021 Atlantic Boulevard UBEX24-0004 (Hoppy Porch LLC)
Request for a use -by -exception to allow beer and wine sales and consumption on-site at
1021 Atlantic Boulevard (in the space formerly known as Brewz).
STAFF REPORT: Planner Genest presented the information as explained in the staff
report. She also provided a PowerPoint presentation. Mr. Haynie asked if the prior
tenant has any restrictions placed on their use -by -exception. Planner Genest said she
didn't think there were any restrictions.
APPLICANT REPORT: John Miller introduced himself and his wife as the applicants.
He explained that the previous tenant was moving on to other opportunities. Mr. Miller
said that he and his wife didn't want to see the business close so they decided to take a
chance and carry on the business. Ms. Lagner asked about the hours of the business.
Mrs. Miller explained that they have small children that attend school, so they are going
to open at 4:00 p.m. instead of 3:00 p.m. She said they will close at 10:00 p.m. except
on Friday and Saturday where they will close at 11:00 p.m. Ms. Lagner asked if they
would be music. Mrs. Miller said there would be music on the radio and there are a
couple of televisions.
PUBLIC COMMENT: Chair Hansen opened the floor to public comment. There were
no public comments.
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MOTION. To APPROVE UBEX24-0004 to allow beer and wine sales and consumption
on-site.
Motion: Harold Gear
Second. Jennifer Lagner
Kirk Hansen
For
Jennifer Lagner (Seconded By)
For
Harold Gear (Moved By)
For
Richard Arthur
For
Ellen Golombek
For
Jeff Haynie
For
Motion passed 6 to 0.
B. 0 Dora Drive (RE# 172049-0000) UBEX24-0003 (Frazers Autos LLC)
Request to expand an existing use -by -exception to allow the sale of new and used
vehicles at 0 Dora Drive (property near the northeast corner of Mayport Road and Dora
Drive).
STAFF REPORT: Director Askew presented the information as explained in the staff
report. She also provided a PowerPoint presentation. Ms. Golombek said that the
pictures in the staff report show vehicles on the lot. Director Askew explained that there
was a complaint about the property being paved without a permit and vehicles have been
parking on there. Mr. Arthur asked if this request would be attached to the previous use -
by -exception for the property on 1919 Mayport Road. Director Askew said it will be a
stand-alone request and wouldn't change the previous allowance of 28 cars at 1919
Mayport Road.
APPLICANT REPORT: Ricky Frazier introduced himself as the owner and applicant.
He explained that he bought the business from his parents, and they have parked cars on
this property for years. Mr. Frazier said that most of the cars that he parks on the property
are waiting to go to the junk yard or auction. He said employees also park there. Mr.
Frazier said he has been working with Derek Martin from Public Works since he paved
the property without a permit. He said that he has applied for a permit and the lot
coverage was 25%. Chair Hansen asked him to clarify if he would be selling new cars.
Mr. Frazier said he only sells used cars. Ms. Golombek asked if he owned the property
and whether he would be okay if the Board limited the number of vehicles that could be
parked on the property. He said he did own the property and had no problem with a limit
and suggested no more than 10. Ms. Lagner asked what Mr. Frazier meant by "junk"
cars. Mr. Frazier said that most of the trade-ins he gets go straight to the junk yard
because it doesn't make sense to fix them up. Mr. Haynie asked Director Askew if there
was a need for a use -by -exception if the property was just going to be used as employee
parking. Director Askew said that it would be required since Mr. Frazier parks trade-in
vehicles on the property.
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July 16, 2024
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PUBLIC COMMENT: Chair Hansen opened the floor to public comment. There were
no public comments.
BOARD DISCUSSION: Ms. Golombek asked if the Board needed to amend the request
from "new and used cars" to "used cars and parking". Director Askew said the Board
can do that and they could set a limit.
MOTION. To APPROVE UBEX24-0003 with the condition that the cars parked on the
property be limited to 10 or less vehicles.
Motion: Jeff Haynie
Second. Harold Gear
Kirk Hansen
For
Jennifer Lagner
For
Harold Gear (Seconded By)
For
Richard Arthur
For
Ellen Golombek
For
Jeff Haynie (Moved By)
For
Motion passed 6 to 0.
3. REPORTS
A. Environmental Stewardship Committee (ESC) report on Tree Variance Code
(Section 23-25(b)
Director Askew said that Bruce Andrews was supposed to speak but he was not present.
The Board moved this item to the August meeting.
4. OLD BUSINESS
Chair Hansen thanked Mayor Curtis Ford and Commissioner Waters for being present at the
meeting. He explained that the following items came about from the joint meeting that the
Community Development Board and the City Commission had. Chair Hansen said the
Community Development Board will conclude which items they would like to recommend to
the City Commission.
A. Stormwater discussion Section 24-68 (b)(1) ---IMPROVEMENTS THAT EXCEED
50% OF THE MARKET VALUE ----which triggers a necessity for on-site retention
of stormwater regardless of lot coverage
Chair Hansen suggested that this trigger be removed. The Board agreed on this
recommendation as long as the property remains at 45% lot coverage.
B. Stormwater discussion Section 24-68(b)(2) ---INCREASE IMPERVIOUS
SURFACES BY 250 SQUARE FEET--- which triggers a necessity for on-site
retention of stormwater regardless of lot coverage
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July 16, 2024
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Chair Hansen suggested that this trigger be removed. The Board agreed on this
recommendation as long as the property remains at 45% lot coverage.
C. Stormwater discussion Section 24 -68(b)(3) ---ONE TIME EXEMPTION
Chair Hansen said it is his understanding that if a property owner wants to add to their
non -conforming home they do not have to conform to the 45% because of this
exemption. Ms. Lagner asked what happens if they knock the house down. Director
Askew said the Code isn't very clear and Staff has grandfathered them in. Ms. Lagner
said she didn't think they should be grandfathered in. Mr. Arthur said he felt like the
language was confusing. Director Askew said she thinks the intent was for property
owners that are over the 45% lot coverage and wanted to make a permitted change they
could have a one-time exemption. Mr. Arthur asked how many properties are there that
are over the 45% lot coverage. Director Askew said there are certain neighborhoods that
have more such as Beach Avenue but there isn't a list. She said she thinks this exemption
was added for the property owners that have non -conforming lots and if they want to
make a permitted change, they wouldn't be able to. Mr. Haynie asked if this exemption
was removed would it mean the property owner couldn't do like for like. Director Askew
said that was correct. Ms. Lagner asked if it also meant someone couldn't tear a non-
conforming home down and rebuild without coming into compliance. Director Askew
said that was correct. Ms. Lagner said she doesn't see how this exemption did anything
to help with the stormwater issues. Director Askew said there could be language
allowing the footprint of the torn down home to be allowed. Ms. Golombek thought
there was language for that. Director Askew said this exemption is used for that purpose.
Mr. Arthur said that the most stormwater challenged areas have some of highest density
and the most non -conforming grandfathered persisting lot coverage. He said it causes
conflict for those that have to put a swale in while someone else doesn't have to. Mr.
Arthur asked if Neptune Beach required a tear down to come back into compliance.
Director Askew said that most municipalities require that if you willfully tear down a
home then you have to come back into compliance. She said there is usually language
exempting for natural disasters. Mr. Haynie said it doesn't make sense to allow the
exemption to continue as it is and said there needs to be language for natural disasters.
Chair Hansen said there needs to be language that if someone willfully changes a home
that is over the 45% lot coverage then they have to build back to the Code. He said if
there is a natural disaster they can build back to the previous ratio. Chair Hansen asked
Director Askew to create language for this.
D. POOLS---- current code "The water surface area of swimming pools shall be
calculated as fifty (50) percent impervious surface."
Chair Hansen said it is his understanding that a pool with 4.5 inch freeboard can absorb
as much water as the ground. Ms. Golombek didn't want this to change since there are
people who cover their pools and infinity pools don't have a freeboard. Ms. Lagner said
she would rather address other methods of relief. Mr. Gear said he would like to see
pools be completely pervious as long as they meet the 4.5 inches. Mr. Arthur said that
if the Board allows pervious technology, then he would be okay with the 50%. Chair
Hansen said it is his understanding that the Board wants to recommend this section
remain as is.
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July 16, 2024
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E. Pervious Paver discussion
Chair Hansen said there were 3 paver representatives at the joint workshop meeting with
Commission that explained the technology has changed. He said the City is looking to
install a small pad with these pavers and run a test. Director Askew confirmed that they
would be installed by paver companies. The Board agreed that if the test is successful
then language can be added with defined specifications. Mr. Arthur said it needs to
address permeable materials and not just pavers. Mr. Arthur said the Board needs to
define permeable technology. The Board agreed to recommend to the City Commission
that they consider permeable surfaces that meet defined specifications.
F. Artificial Turf discussion
Chair Hansen said it is his understanding from previous presentations that turf can be
permeable, just like pavers. Director Askew said the ESC is having concerns about the
artificial turn due to the environmental impact of microplastics and the fact that it
replaces natural vegetation, pollinators and bugs. Mr. Arthur asked if the Board wanted
to look at the environmental impact or the stormwater impact. Mr. Haynie said the City
can address the environmental part and could be a separate conversation. Ms. Lagner
said that if it doesn't make the Code it should be due to the environmental reasons, not
it's impermeability. Ms. Golombek asked it there would be a test for the artificial turf.
Mr. Haynie said this should be merged with other permeable surfaces. Chair Hansen
wanted to keep it separate for the environmental reason. The Board agreed to
recommend to the City Commission that they approve the use of artificial turf to be
weighed against environmental effects.
G. Tailoring stormwater retention according to the hydrology of specific
neighborhoods as opposed to a "one size fits all approach".
Chair Hansen said that there are certain parts of the City that are more sensitive to
stormwater runoff and he didn't think where he lives falls into the category. He said
there should be designation to what parts of the City need to be treated differently than
other parts. Ms. Golombek said that the area where Chair Hansen lives has its own
separate retention which doesn't mean it doesn't have a water retention problem. She
said the Board needs to be very specific with any kind of exemption. Ms. Lagner
wondered if the City had addressed the areas that need pipe replacement. Director
Askew said that since the Board was removing agenda item 4.A and 4.B that would
negate a lot of discussion about 4.G. Ms. Golombek asked if property owners that live
in areas with water retention were wanting to change the 45%. Chair Hansen said he
knows the areas that have their own water retention don't have problems, but he wasn't
sure about other areas. Mr. Gear said he lives in an area that has retention, but they have
problems from the runoff from the Atlantic Beach Golf Course. Ms. Lagner asked which
areas had the most flooding. Director Askew said Old Atlantic Beach (numbered streets
from Seminole to the Ocean), Aquatic Gardens, areas along Sherman Creek, and
everything west of Mayport Road. She said that in some areas there's not enough gravity
to move the water or on the marsh side it's the tidal. Director Askew said the City is
working on check valves, exploring other technology and looking for money in the
budget to update the Stormwater Master Plan. Chair Hansen asked if there are things
that can be done to alleviate the problems in these areas. He said he thinks it might be
something the City needs to answer. Mr. Arthur said it's not uncommon for cities to have
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July 16, 2024
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different requirements in different areas according to the issues. He said that by opening
up the opportunities to different permeable technology could help. Mr. Arthur felt like
the current solution was a blanket solution for individual areas with problems. Chair
Hansen agreed that the Board should recommend that the Commission address specific
areas with specific solutions. Mr. Haynie agreed and said that what the Board is
recommending so far is a start. Ms. Lagner said she was stuck on the calculation for on-
site retention because this has been put in place and can be very onerous for everyone in
the City to alleviate issues in separate parts of the City. Mr. Haynie asked what the
solution was. Ms. Lagner said to change the calculation based on multiple engineers that
have made recommendations. Mr. Arthur felt like the removal of agenda items 4.A, 4.B
and 4.0 would alleviate most of that burden. Ms. Lagner said the Code previously spoke
of lot coverage while it now is based on the total impervious area. She said the
unintended consequences with the swales needs to be looked at. Chair Hansen said he
didn't see a need to discuss this any further.
5. PUBLIC COMMENT
Chair Hansen opened the floor to public comment.
Marden LeBouton of 774 Aquatic Drive introduced herself. She said she was under the
impression that the City received a grant to dig the pond deeper and she would like the City to
build a wall around it because the land is disappearing. Ms. LeBouton said she was told the
project was supposed to have started last January. Chair Hansen recommended that she speak
to the Mayor and Commissioner after the meeting.
Sarah Boren 388 8th Street introduced herself. She said she would like to see the grandfathering
loophole closed. Ms. Boren said she has spent 20 years in the Green Building realm and was
the Director of USGBC. She said that she is a supporter of the permeable pavers, but they do
require maintenance. Ms. Boren is concerned about putting this on Commission and budget.
She thinks that all solutions need to be on the table.
Greg Powell of 1871 Selva Marina Drive introduced himself. He said he would have liked to
give his comments prior to the meeting since they may not be of much use at this point. Mr.
Powell thought that agenda items 4.A, 4.B and 4.0 were put into the Code to deal with non-
conforming properties. He said pools for the most part are pervious and solve the problem as
they store water. Mr. Powell said all permeable technologies are definitely a positive thing and
should be incorporated in the Code. He said that the City has 2 methods of dealing with
stormwater, one is Chapter 24 and the other is stormwater utility which provides a revenue
source to the City for a wide range of stormwater activities. Mr. Powell said it could be used
for incentives for compliance which isn't being done. He said Section 22-302, paragraphs 3,8
and 11 which says "The costs should be allocated to the relationship of services received. The
services received are dependent on factors that influence run-off, including land use and
impervious area." Mr. Powell explained this further and said it needs to be looked into and
updated. He said many of the areas that flood have done so historically, and it will take the City
to correct. Mr. Powell said that for existing non -conforming properties they should not be
allowed to further increase their impervious surface since they are above 45%. He said that
since they impose a greater burden they should pay a greater fee. Mr. Powell said that when the
footprint of these properties change then they should have to come into compliance of current
Codes. Chair Hansen told Mr. Powell that he has helped with a lot of the decisions that were
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July 16, 2024
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made tonight. Mr. Powell said that if a property owner can't provide stormwater storage then
they should pay a higher utility fee. He said there are things that need to be carefully considered
and he provided a handout to all the Board members.
6. ADJOURNMENT
There being no further discussion, Chair Hansen declared the meeting adjourned at 7:44 p.m.
Attest:
A WAV.
V--Lli�a J,
Amanda Askew
Community Development Board (CDB)
July 16, 2024
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