04-13-87 v AGENDA
CITY OF ATLANTIC BEACH
Monday, April 13, 1987, 7:15 PM
Call to Order
Invocation and Pledge to the Flag
1. Approval of the minutes of the Regular Meeting of March 23, 1987
and Special Meeting of March 30, 1987
2. Recognition of Visitors
3. Bids Returnable:
A. Receipt of Bids for a 40 cu. yd. roll-off trash container for
use in the Sanitation Division of the Department of Public
Works
4. Appearances:
A. Representatives of Waitz and Frye, Inc. , Consulting Engineers,
seeking Commission decision on the economic evaluation report
for expansion of wastewater treatment facilities in the
Buccaneer District
B. Attorney John Dickinson to present a proposed Memorandum of
Understanding settling the impasse dispute between the City of
Atlantic Beach and the Police Union
C. Melody Linger representing Gee and Jenson, to present tabu-
lations and recommendations relative to bids received on the
City of Atlantic Beach proposed Public Safety building
D. Lawrence Ross requesting approval of his application for a
security office trailer on his property off Levy Road as
provided under Section 24-158 of the City Code
5. Action by the City Commission to accept for maintenance the public
facilities in the following projects:
1. Deerfield Lakes Condominiums Phase I in the Buccaneer Water
and Sewer District
2. Oceanwalk Project Phase 3 in the Buccaneer Water and Sewer
District
6. Authority for the Mayor and Clerk to execute an agreement with the
Department of Community Affairs for hazard mitigation
7. Action on Ordinances:
A. Ordinance No. 90-87-119
Introduction and first reading of an Ordinance amending the
Ordinance Code of the City of Atlantic Beach; amending the
Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance to provide a procedure for
requesting deviations from the requirements for off-street
parking and loading, and setting of a public hearing for April
27, 1987
B. Ordinance No. 90-87-116
Public hearing and final reading of an Ordinance proposing to
rezone twenty-nine acres, more or less, from RS2 and OR to
Planned Unit Development for a project titled Selva Linkside
(Community Development Board recommends approval)
8. Miscellaneous
Adjournment
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE ATLANTIC BEACH CITY
COMMISSION HELD AT CITY HALL ON APRIL 13, 1987 AT 7:15 P.M. V V
O O
T T
PRESENT: William S. Howell, Mayor-Commissioner E E
Robert B. Cook, Sr. D D
Glenn A. Edwards
William I. Gulliford, Jr. M S
John W. Morris, Jr. , Commissioners
O E
AND: Richard C. Fellows, City Manager T C
Claude L. Mullis, City Attorney I 0 Y
Adelaide R. Tucker, City Clerk NAME OF ONEN
COMMRS. N D S 0
The meeting was called to order by Mayor Howell. The invocation,offered
by Commissioner Cook was followed by the pledge to the flag.
1. Approval of the minutes of the Regular Meeting of March 23, 1987 and
Special Meeting of March 30, 1987
Motion: Minutes of the Regular Meeting of March 23, 1987 be Cook x
approved as written. Edwards x x
Gulliford x
No discussion before the vote. Motion carried unanimously. Morris x x
* * * * * * * * ;; * * ;: * ;. * * * * * * * * * * * * Howell x
Motion: Minutes of the Special Called Meeting of March 30, 1987 Cook x
be approved as written. Edwards x
Gulliford x x
No discussion before the vote. Motion carried unanimously. Morris x x
* ;; * * ;: * * * * * ;; * * * * * ;; * * ;; * * * * * * * * * Howell x
2. Recognition of Visitors
Mrs. Kennedy, Main St. inquired as to the status of Section H. Mayor
Howell explained the engineers had been told to go back to the drawing
board to correct some errors. Everyone will be notified when the next
meeting would be held, and he will personally call Mrs. Kennedy.
Mr. William Morgan, 1945 Beach Avenue was present to discuss his pro-
posed recombination of previously platted lots 17, 18 and Parcel "A"
in North Atlantic Beach. He proposed recombining three parcels in such
a way that the result would be the same exact square footage as the
original parcels. Mrs. Rene Angers, Community Development Director,
informed him by letter the proposed resubdivision of land was in con-
formance with their current zoning. The Mayor told Mr. Morgan his
proposal would be considered by the Community Development Board at
their next meeting on April 21, 1987. The Board would send their recom-
mendations to the City Commission. Mr. Morgan will be notified to be
present at both meetings.
3. Bids Returnable:
A. Receipt of Bids for a 40 cu. yd. roll-off trash container for
use in the Sanitation Division of the Department of Public Works
PAGE TWO V V
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APRIL 13, 1987 COMMRS. MSYN
3. Bids returnable - continued
The following bids were received and opened:
1. Waste Equipment Leasing, Inc. , Jacksonville $3,450.00 FOB
Bid Bond-Cashier's check for $172.50
2. T.J.Sales & Leasing, Neptune Beach
No bid Bond enclosed.
Before the bid was read, a lengthy discussion was held
on accepting bids without the requested bid bond. The
same discussion was held a year ago and it was the
consensus of the Commission at that time on commodity
bids a 5% bid bond would not be required.
Motion: Waive the Bid Bond requirement on this contract and return Cook x x
the bid bond received to Ray Pace's Waste Equipment, Inc. Edwards x
Gulliford x
No discussion before the vote. Motion carried unanimously. Morris x x
* * * ., ,. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Howell x
Mayor Howell then read the bid from
No. 2. T.J.Sales & Leasing, Neptune Beach $3,986.00
price good for ten days.
Bid tabulation attached hereto and made a part hereof.
Motion: Award the contract for one roll-off trash container to Cook x x
the low bidder, Waste Equipment Leasing, Inc. in the Edwards x
amount of $3,450. ,providing he meet the specifications. Gulliford x x
Morris x
No discussion before the vote. Motion carried unanimously. Howell x
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Commissioner Gulliford asked to reaffirm the intent of the Commission's
bidding procedures. He expressed the opinion it would be much more
desirable for companies to bid on commodities and manufactured goods
without a bid bond requirement. Commission agreed.
4. Appearances:
A. Representatives of Waitz and Frye, Inc. , Consulting Engineers,
seeking Commission decision on the economic evaluation report for
expansion of wastewater treatment facilities in the Buccaneer District
At the meeting of March 23, 1987 item 4 a. was deferred until the meeting
of April 13, 1987 at the request of Commissioner Cook. Commissioner Cook
gave a copy of the report to an engineer, Mr. Alan Potter, 374 2nd St.
for his comments. After reading the report, Mr. Potter raised some
Issues that Commissioner Cook felt should be brought before the Com-
mission. Mayor Howell recognized Mr. Alan Potter to offer his comments.
PAGE THREE V V
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• APRIL 13, 1987 COMMRS. MSYN
4. Appearances continued:
Mr. Alan Potter stated he was a 28 year resident of At-
lantic Beach, an engineer and one of the engineers in-
vited by Mr. Fellows to submit letter qualifications to
the project. The invitation called for all engineers to
submit qualifications and data concerning the 400, 000
gallon per day addition to the Buccaneer Plant. There
was no invitation that other people questioned by the
engineers submit alternative proposals for consideration
and evaluation. The committee selected three engineers
for final consideration by the City Commission. To the
best of Mr. Alan Potters knowledge none of the three
engineers were interviewed by the committee which to somt
degree is the intent of Florida law. The three firms
that were finalists were invited to the council meeting
to be heard and discuss their capabilities before the
Commission. The Commission only heard one firm and
didn't extend the courtesy to at least speak to the
other two firms. By whatever interpretation of state
law or desire of the Commission, the Commission in
effect only interviewed one firm. Because of some
ruestion the Commission asked the selected firm Waitz
Id Frye to submit a report that the economic feasi-
bility of not adding a 400, 000 gallon addition but as
per their suggestion, expanding the plant 2 million
gallons a day capacity. The original submittal of the
economic report was not signed or sealed by any engi-
neer and in addition it was not complete. The reason
it was not complete was it made certain assumptions
that could go either way for the same amount of dol-
lars. The Commission was not told in that report how
those dollars were arrived at, except plug numbers.
There was no breakdown of any confidence as to the
operating cost and that flaw is evidence by a letter
the Commission had since received changing those num-
bers significantly. The capital costs were based
upon assumed figures to expand the plant at some
later date by 550, 000 gallons per day at $1. 50 a gal-
lon. The most recent division of the Buccaneer
Plant was passed at 75-80 cents a gallon. In effect
the economic report said if the plant were later
expanded it would cost twice as much as the expansion
most recently completed last year. The big deal that
was proposed was converting the plant from extended
aeration which is the design it is now, to a complete
mix alternative. The basic thing is extended aera-
tion takes the sludge flow into the plant and theor-
:ically retains it at the plant for not less than
hours or normally 24 hours. For complete mix
PAGE FOUR V V
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, 1987 COMMRS. M S Y N
it takes the sewage into the plant and retains it for
. normally 12 hours. Mathematically we're talking about 1L
hours or 24 hours in a 24 hour day. That does not ac-
count for close in the morning particularly from a rest
dential community which Mayport area is. Complete mi:.
during the peak of the day is a 6 hour contingent pro-
cess. For a good comparison of where a complete mix
plant is, is the City of Jacksonville's Buckman Plant.
Very few have seen the Buckman Plant but all have smelled
it. On a complete mix with peak close you do not have
the opportunity under oxidation and the bacteria colonies
that consume waste products to do the job that can be
done under extended aeration which keeps it, no matter
what time of day, normally twice as long as complete mix.
The end result is if we're supposed to be building sewer
plants by state guidelines to do the job of sewage treat-
ment, and discharge it in the St. Johns River which goes
into Jacksonville or out to the ocean, we should continue
to do a good job not in safe of a projected spoken but
not documented economy converted to a plant that does
half the treatment, has the potential of detaining it
half as long to produce a less quality final air mix. If
' he complete mix project was as good or as simple as
xtended air, the Florida DER would have the same staff-
ing requirements of qualified personnel and their hel-
pers. Mr. Alan Potter feels that attention time would be
cut in half and the DER was right in recognizing that it
needs to be looked at twice as often in total personnel
man-hours per day and, that is what they require in the
rules. The key thing about personnel which was not
addressed in economic study has been casually addressed
but not identified in the letter you just recently re-
ceived, is when you double the payroll on paper you do
more than double it if you go from 8 hours a day to 1E
hours a day, and if you go from 5 days a week to seven
days a week because we don't get 52 weeks of work out of
our employees. If we're lucky counting holidays, vaca-
tion, and sick leave you'll get 46 weeks of production
but you'll pay for 52 and so your going to have at least
a 50 to 100 percent increase in personnel faults the
minute you convert from extended air to complete mix.
You may not have that commensurate increase in revenues,
you do have bond obligations that continue regardless of
payroll. You could be affecting your bond reserves. You
will be increasing your payroll either by your contract
opera'tor or by city operation whoever operates the pen-
sion. There is no comparative data provided for even the
mention that the shorter the treatment time the higher
he concentration and volume of sludge to be disposed of.
PAGE FIVE V V
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APRIL 13, 1987 COMMRS. MSYN
You have seen, heard and read about the Buckman Plant
. which is a complete mix plant that is discharging sludge
behind Regency Square. They had problems in the Baldwin
area where they were discharging sludge on rainy days
creating giant odor problems because they were producing
far more sludge than the Buckman could get rid of because
the incinerator at the time didn't work. This plant will
not have an incinerator. You will increase the quantity
and the cost of disposal of Buccaneer plant if you go to
complete mix. In the economics report, which is in no
way a reflection on the person mentioned, the report
sites a solicited phone conversation from Mr. Mike Mattox
who happens to be the key employee of your present con-
tract. In all fairness to business, we like to have the
amount of people we need. If Mr. Mattox feels that
increasing the Plant is going to take more people even in
the extended aeration mode thats his opportunity to pre-
sent to the Commission at its next contract negotiations.
The three people that are working there now and the
plant 's operating at 1, 000, 000 gallons a day, and there
is no change as far as the plant. As customers grow you
may have more meter readings. You may have one or two
re lift stations. The plant did not jump 25, 30 or 40
rcent in complexity of this operation. The Commission
in determining what to do and looking at feasibility,
should rely upon the engineers they spoke to or possibly
the nearest that happen to show up. Mr. Mattox being the
contractor to the city, and having sort of a damned if he
does and damned if he doesn't position, is not in my
opinion properly qualified to be advising the city as a
part of the economic report. Treatment plant at Buc-
caneer is doing an outstanding job. Mr. Mattox 's people
are operating it properly. Its doing as good or better
than any plant east of the Intercoastal waterway today.
It is extended areas of the plant. Its always been that.
Its always had a good record of operation. For the sake
of a few thousand promised dollar savings that are more_
than off-set in my opinion by the labor costs that will
be incurred, sludge costs that will be incurred by going
to complete mix. You have asked for a choice that is in
my opinion a bad choice. There is no relaxation in the
environmental standards that are going to take place
the next year or five years or ten years. Any rule or
regulation the government can set in place damn well
isn't going to be made easier, and for the city to even
consider taking a properly operated, properly working
wastewater treatment plant and change it in a step back
wards could turn out a lesser quality air flow the close'
comes to design close than the less quality you' ll be
y..tting and you ' ll be flying in taste of good judgement
PAGE SIX V V
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APRIL 13, 1:'^-' COMMRS. M S Y N
particularly the way EPA and DPR Environmentalists have
.been aggressive over the past 16 years. There not going
to get easier. So I strongly urge the Commission and
economics to get more dollar figures, more real figures,
less assumed figures based upon the real cost incurred by
Atlantic Beach and its surplant and by Atlantic Beach at
the Buccaneer Plant. That information is real numbers.
Its available to you. References to our and DER numbers
is nothing but pure bureaucratic holgram. They take it
from all north Florida, big plants, little plants, what-
ever. Then they massage the numbers if you don't think
DER massages the numbers, you would be surprised they du.
They come up with an answer that makes the numbers fit.
So you got the information, whether you want to do it in-
house or have your selected engineers do it you should
pay attention to what your costs are, what your costs
have been and what real costs in Atlantic Beach's Plant
and Buccaneer Plant will be in the future. In addition
use of generated present value and future value costs is
mathematical manipulation. You call it an average cost.
You are going to pay so much money to build a sewer
plant. Once that 's built, its spent. You do all this
Icy stuff on calculators and says present value and
lure value of money and so on but the truth is, is
400, 000 gallons a day expansion that was recently built,
was built for normally $300, 000. Say that figure is old,
I don't know. We'll have to do it again on the next go
around if that were chosen. But it was still 75 cents a
gallon. That figures my own, that figure's real. The
figures you got in the letter most recently use $1. 50 and
$1. 65 a gallon for projected costs. Thats more than 100%
jump in five years or ten years. So those figures in my
opinion are absolutely suspect as being manipulated to
create the answer desired. You should be taking numbers
that you know are real and you have available to you.
Then you will come up with what is considered the quality
of treatment that you wanted to and the law requires and
work towards that and don't back up. The final thing is
pay attention, not because I say so or anybody else says
so. The personnel requirements to go from three em-
ployees to not less than six and possibly eight or nine
will eat up any make believe savings in a matter of two,
three, or four years. Thereafter, those employees, good
people, God's children, they' ll be eaten out of your
revenue picture and change the entire economics at Buc-
caneer' which have been very good so far and should be
better as the system grows.
mmissioner Edwards asked Mr. Alan Potter if the com-
plaint mix was a step backwards why would the DER let you
PAGE SEVEN V V
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APRIL 13, 1987 COMMRS. MSYN
build a step backwards. The DER allows a lot of thing
that are in the text books and they allow it partly
because of their personnel, partly because of certain
receiving streams. In my opinion its a bad judgement.
Jacksonville has spent more than a decade trying to make
theirs work. They never have succeeded. They have used
the bypass valve repeatedly because they couldn't afford
to haul sludge. That's a matter of record. The city was
fined $300, 000 because theywere bypassing sludge in the
St. Johns River and they only caught them at Buckman,
they didn't catch them at District 2.
Commissioner Edwards asked why would we have to go to 8-9
men when we are running a 2, 000, 000 gallon plant up here
and we've got six Mr. Potter said you had to go to
six minimum and it would probably come closer to 8-9
because you can't have, you may be getting away with it,
but by their published regulations you have to have a C
operator on each shift supervised by B operator, and you
have to have attention seven days a week, 16 hours a day.
If you work out the total man-hours you will find you
can't safely and reasonably be done with less than 6.
;ommissioner Edwards said that the B operator or the A
operator doesn't have to be present at all times. He 11
in charge. Mr. Potter asked if Commissioner Edwards
would put an operator at a treatment plant seven nights a
week by himself. Commissioner Edwards said that he
wouldn 't do that. Mr. Potter said he wouldn't either.
If your going to have three shifts We're doing it
right now at the surplant here Mr. Potter said you
work out the man-hours. There are 2080 man-hours in 52
week 40 hour week. As I mentioned earlier you give
people two weeks vacation, two weeks sick leave and
whether you like it or not you have two weeks of holi-
days. You only have 46 work weeks not 52 work weeks. I
realize that but we're working with one man up here at
night on a 8 hour shift. Jax Bch has one. No helpers, a
person there for safety. I 've been down to Jax Bch quite
a few times and I haven't seen one down there and I 've
been down there quite a few times and there's one man.
That 's a matter of judgement, I would not put anyone at
the surplant in mechanical equipment at night time by
himself for any economical reason. I wouldn't either but
when I worked for the city I didn't want to take lift
stations by myself but it was a necessity. We do a lot
of things out of necessity but in planning to do things
right I would not do that.
PAGE EIGHT V V
MINUTES NAME OF
COMMRS. MSYN
"Mayor Howell wants to clarify one thing. Ok, be my
• guest. Mr. Potter, let me get something clarified here
because you made a couple of statements at the beginning
of your remarks that I take offense to. I just want to
get it straight. You made the statement, basically I 'll
bring it down to the point that I 'm particularly inter-
ested in, that a committee went over several number of
engineering applicants and that committee came up with
three. Of those three were ranked 1, 2 and 3 and that
you stated, correct me if I 'm wrong, that you were one of
the three but you were not given the privilege, oppor-
tunity, whatever the word to be heard. Am I correct? At
no step of the game was I or nine of the ten ever inter-
viewed. I wasn't on the interviewing committee. I 'm
talking about before the City Commission. Thats correct
there were three. Yes sir. All right you were not given
the opportunity to be heard. Let me remind you Mr.
Potter just so that no one walks out of here with any
false impressions that the process of which the City
Commission goes through which is mandated by the State
Legislature which was lobbied in the State Legislature by
the engineers. UNCLEAR ON TAPE. Well engineers, it was
not the City Commission who has repeatedly stated that we
do not like the process but the process is that we inter-
view the first one. If there is no reason that we can
find to break negotiations then he gets it. Basically
that 's it and the others are not interviewed. Now the
only other thing I want to point out is that is the law.
That 's not what we did, that is the law. Past the Legis-
lature, lobbied by the engineers. That 's all, I just
wanted to get that straight. We have different interpre-
tations and I appreciate yours. Well we have a city
attorney here if I 'm wrong let him speak now or forever
hold his peace. UNCLEAR ON TAPE There you've got the law
maybe you can clear it up for both of us, we can do it
later. Then I wish he would. Would you clarify? Well
pure and simple the point I made was that I believe it
was 10 or 12 engineers responded to Mr. Fellows invita-
tion. We submitted communications of sorts. The commit-
tee received those communications and no one was invited
to appear before the committee. At no time except the
night one selection was made, which may be the best out
of the ten. UNCLEAR ON TAPE. I 'm only saying that the
Commission did not avail itself of the opportunity of
talking to any firm at any step of the game and two
Commissioners were on the committee. It was all based
upon brochures, letters, notebooks, plastic covers, pret-
ty pictures whatever. But nowhere would you call to the
people who are going to do the work and I will digress to
a point evidences that same criticism
PAGE NINE V V
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APRIL 13, 1987 COMMRS. M S Y N
of the people doing section H engineering that the guy
you thought was going to be doing the job that you banked
heavily on is no longer with the firm hired. I submit
you don't get the best necessarily or you may have gotten
the best, I 'm not making a judgement. I didn't come here
for that reason. I came here to defend extended air and
caution you about complete mix. You did not avail your-
self of finding out who else could do as good or worse
job. So you made one choice like in Russian Roulette and
you may have gotten the empty chamber and not gotten a
shot. How do you know we only made one choice? Because
I was invited to be here that night and so was UNCLEAR ON
TAPE. You're talking about the committee. You made
several statements that you didn't talk to anybody.
talked to two engineers. . . . that came here or was invited
for an interview No sir. They took the time to call
me and talk to me Mr. Mayor never at one time did
I talk about anything other than encouraging them to
submit their put their name in a hat. Its a professional
qualifications evaluation Yes sir. . . . Lets get back to
legal things. UNCLEAR ON TAPE. Mr. Mayor, I think your
interpretation is more near being legally correct than
that of Mr. Potter. The Consultants Competitive negotia-
pn night which was drafted by the President of Flori-
da 's Society of Engineers at which time Mr. Jimmy Shiver
of Reynolds, Smith, and Hills was president of that
association and throughout the years the League of Cities
and every other government entity in Florida has tried to
get some competition provisions in the State Consultants
Competitive Negotiation Night. I don't, having somewhat
a clear idea of what brought about the legislation, the
fact that there were certain engineers thats continued to
get all of the work for a lot of government entities year
after year after year of a continuing contract. The
provisions of the State Statute provides that there shall
be no provision in the request for proposals that will
generate competition such as number of man-hours, number
of dollars, that's going to be submitted. The procedure
as followed under that statute is that once the request
for proposals is received, they can be rank 1, 2, 3 or 1,
2, 3, 4. As many as you want to rank, but throughout the
history of the act, it 's been the engineers contingent
through the State of Florida. Its been the courts inter-
pretation since they took the City of Jacksonville to
court to determine whether or not the City of Jackson-
ville could require some competition and require man-
hours, could require other factors to be included in
there that would generate some competition in the First
strict Court of Appeals, hell if it was contrary to the
PAGE TEN v v
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APRIL 13, 1987 COMMRS. M S Y N
statute that you could not do anything that would requiiv
anything to be competitive and that is the purpose of
course that the Consultants Competitive Negotiations Act
is to get proposals, negotiate with number one and its
clear that unless you terminate negotiations with number
one you cannot go to number. two. If you do not termi-
nate, if you conclude that there is no reason for termi-
nation with number one and you reach an agreement on
price as well as scope of service to be performed your
going NOT CLEAR ON TAPE. Thank you Mr. Gulliford TAPE, I
just wanted to get that clarified with the people in here
so that they don't go off thinking we excluded everybody
for the sake of one firm. I suggest all the engineers
that you go back to Tallahassee and lobby once more to
get rid of this idiocy and we'll all be in a better
position. Mr. Gulliford. Well I wasn 't on the commit-
tee, I wasn't even privileged to vote because I was out
of town or participate in this election process, but I do
respect both the judgement of the people as well as
fellow Commissioners. I 'm still kind of waiting get to
item number 4 A. which is called representatives of Waitz
and Frye, Inc. , Consulting Engineers, seeking Commission
rfi=cision because I thing thats probably the appropriate
Lion in this situation or instance and I feel like I 'm
somewhat independent of the action because of my absence
and I think will all due respect to Mr. Potter's observa-
tions, I think their well intended. I still think its
appropriate for us now to give these people an opportuni-
ty to come here and do what 's required or requested by
the item on the agenda and that is let 's here them.
Their the ones we selected. I think its appropriate now
that we listen to them and make some kind of decision.
All right, I just wanted Mr. Potter to have the opportu-
nity to bring these points up. He brought them up to me
and they sounded important enough and I though we ought
to bring them to your own attention. Thank you Mr.
Potter.
We're back to 4A. I think we have a Mr. Frye, I 'm sorry,
Mr. Waitz, I ' m sorry, if you'll take the floor now sir.
Mr. Mayor I have to apologize its a little difficult for
me to respond to what was just said, because NOT CLEAR ON
TAPE. Perhaps, the best way to be unless the
Commissioner feels otherwise, I stand ready to answer
each point brought out by Mr. Potter. However, I have
great reservations about the professional ethics involved
in doing this. I really don 't think it will accomplish
anything to get into a contest. NOT CLEAR ON TAPE. I
ild like however, to say I 'm very very disappointed
an, that if you had these reservations that you didn't
PAGE ELEVEN V V
MINUTES NAME OF
APRIL 13, 1987 COMMRS. M S Y N
call me and perhaps we could have discussed it. NOT CLEAR
ON TAPE. I 'm not sure I heard one statement that you
made, I think the minutes when I asked for a transfer,
will either confirm it or not. Did I hear you say that
complete mix does one half of the treatment? No, I did
not say that. I think the record will say otherwise.
just wanted the Commission to know that is a complete,
complete misrepresentation. That was not said. And .1
also would like the Commission to know that our firm is
presently completing the construction phase which has
received the blessings of the Environmental Protection
Agency. NOT CLEAR ON TAPE. A grand. On a complete min
plan for the City of Palatka, Florida. Read MTD. The
other point is this. We stand ready. We're not trying
to push any particular designs on the city. Please
understand that. We did respond to the initial
advertisement for professional services, with the idea
that yes we will design a plan that's exactly as the
advertisement asked. However, we did offer the city an
alternative which superficially made sense to us
economically. Then we were asked by the Commission, well.
how about an informal report. I think those were the
words used, not going into any great detail to
ubstantiate what we felt was our gut feeling which we
submitted. Incidentally, I 'll be more than welcome to
sign it and seal it. I can't seal it today, I didn't
seal with me, but I ' ll sign it. I will come back
tomorrow morning and seal it. I will stand behind it.
think the report speaks for itself. The report speaks
for itself, I have reflected this NOT CLEAR ON TAPE, in
my office, my staff and have reflected our professional
opinion in the report. NOT CLEAR ON TAPE. These are
accepted means by which you analyze comparisons or
alternatives with respect to sewage treatments. This
what we use. The actual dollars, if you're going to use
actual numbers will prove the same thing. You ' ll come to
the exact same conclusion, as the values in these
numbers. I guess unless there was some issues brought up
that you would like me to go into specifically. I 'll be
happy to do it. Mr. Mayor, I don't have some specific
issues, but I have some that were brought up, but I asked
some specific questions. If we maintain the present
method of treatment, in order to get to 2, 000, 000 gallons
per day of treatment, how much more property or will we
need more property or acreage Yes, I think that 's
reflected in our report 2 acres and you said a
price per acre of $10, 000. NOT CLEAR ON TAPE. And ther.
you came back because you got a little more realistic,
ut it wasn't just a matter of the price of the value per
cre you established. The other question that I had is
PAGE TWELVE V V
MINUTES NAME OF
APRIL 13, 1987 COMMRS. MSYN
•
that you come up with a site for that or a location
No sir There was strictly an assumption on your par+
that, that 's how much more acreage, but you didn't ad-
dress the problem or the potential problem of that extra
two acres and its location and it would have to be adja
cent to. Yes sir, that is correct. We took a best case
situation and assumed that this acreage would be within
the immediate vicinity of your existing plant. And Mr.
Fellows, you 've done some preliminary work looking for
acreage or any kind of site up there or land. Do you
feel comfortable or confident that we can secure two
acres adjacent to with relative ease? Not without con-
demnation, there's a small parcel adjacent to the proper-
ty on which a mobile home sits. I think 6500 that we'r(
looking into, but that is the only thing without going
condemnations that I know of. But we can ' t condemn the
land. The city could condemn the land. . . . Can we, even
know it 's in a another municipality, we can condemn
it I don 't know about that, I know a city can exer-
cise it 's eminent domain powers outside of it 's boun-
daries and if it 's in the county they can do that. Mr.
Mullis would have to respond But that 's something
that could end up in the Legislature, because again we're
)ack to the same question about incorporated areas aren't
we? Not only that, but the substantial NOT CLEAR ON TAPE
the fact bears out just what you suggested that you do
not have NOT CLEAR ON TAPE to condemned property except
within your boundaries. The point that I 'm finally get
ting to, and then I ' ll yield the floor, John, Com
missioner Gulliford "I want to respond to
something but that is a big consideration for us,
that if everything was an equal trade-off and I respect
what Alan brought up. You don't get anything for free
anymore, somewhere you trade something off. Assuming
that all of our costs were the same, that one factor
becomes very significant and that is where do you in-
crease the land area or how do you increase the land area
that you need. That is significant, John. Commissione!
Morris "Well you wanted to hear, so just by quick expla-
nation I won't take a lot of time. You knew my feelings
about the baby before it was born at Buccaneer, and then
once the baby got here, I loved the baby. One of the
major concerns in all this study and I 'll say I told you
so, if the fact that we have grown 2 years ahead of time
and increased volume there. Businesswise that's good,
but what my concern was if you go back and read those
twenty-eight hours of debate, is the fact that we have
come on-stream needing the fourth kettle out there 3
ears early. Which means you 're going to move up the
__ecessity of the fifth kettle which goes off the charge
PAGE THIRTEEN v v
MINUTES
APRIL 13, 1987 NAME OF
COMMRS. MSYN
because there was no land there to put the fifth kettle.
What intrigued us in the committee was these people Waitz
• and Frye were creative enough to say hey, we think we can
do for you and they were the only ones who did this. We
think we can do for you on the same land site what the
equivalent of 5 kettles would be. So they were the only
one who did that out of all we reviewed. Now that was
innovative and creative and certainly caught our eye.
That's why we recommended to the Commission that rather
than have to try to find land, if you put that fifth
kettle out there at a remote area, then you would in
essence be operating an entirely different plant or you
would have some exotic lift stations and pump stations to
get it there, one or the other. Simply saying, I think
they were creative enough to get our attention.
Mr. Fellows "Mr. Gulliford, you mentioned I should say
you asked about land. Now, the old Buccaneer Service
Company does own some property which now belongs to
Atlantic Beach, I think on the other side of Mayport Road
where the old plant was. I 'm not sure of the size, but
the problems that would be encountered in running an
additional tank there and hooking it up with the present
lant would be very, very expensive.
Bob Cook says I don't understand.
Morris "The way I read the report from Waitz and Frye is
they've given us the alternative we asked for. Let 's
look and the fourth and then the fifth tanks and area.
Then let 's consider the fourth tank with some renovations
that would do what five tanks would do. They 've given us
that choice in this study. Bob, what we were talking
about the other day was the fact that we didn't have to
make a choice on whether to go with them or not or what-
ever, but to make a choice on which way we wanted to go.
Four tanks that would do the work of five, or four tankE;
that would do the work or four tanks and worry about the
fifth tank in a couple of years, then have to search out
land to do it.
Bob Cook says this other method of processing. . . . Morris
"It was considered and discussed and there are some
variations on it. I had the privilege of sitting in on a
meeting with Mr. Fellows, Mr. Braid and these gentlemen.
Just , out of curiosity, of course you know me I have tc,
ask some questions. They have a plan, not formal, not
put down on paper, where by we can continue to use our
-esent method up through how many gallons of treat
PAGE FOURTEEN V V
MINUTES NAME OF
Ap" r' " " ,•� COMMRS. MSYN
ment Up to 1. 3 million gallons extended ail just likr
. we are right now.
Mr. Waltz "Over that we go to the solids, now what do you
call that. Morris "I 'm going to quit and let the experts:
talk. Mr. Waltz "If I canexpand on just a little sir.
The extended aeration is nothing magic NOT CLEAR ON TAPE
and I would like to make it perfectly clear to the mem-
bers of the commission that discharge to the St. Johns
River does not mandate extended aeration or a 95% degree
of treatment or 99% degree of treatment. The extended
aeration process obviously there is a technical disagree-
ment that I detected. The literature and I do pay atten-
tion to certain literature, technical literature reveals
that extended aeration varies anywhere from 18 to 24
hours of the tension time and also it 's dependent upon
the area of the country your in whether your in a tem-
perent zone or up north with the different. Based on the-
range of 18 to 24 hours we have calculated that you will
still be within the extended aeration treatment mode till
you get to approximately 1. 3 million gallons a day. And
if I could have, I just noticed I had a note that there
---s a 75 cent, 80 cent a gallon figure that was thrown
t. Morris said 75 cents a gallon.
Mr. Waltz says number 1 : I would like. . . . There is a
little bit of difference I have noticed and I have done
lot, lot of treatment plant work and I 'm willing to swap
credentials with a lot of people for investor owned and
municipalities and quite frankly there's a difference in
design and attitude. When you design for an investor
owned utility who eventually intends to sell the utility
plant. They 're not going to have it forever and a
municipality, you have it forever. You have it forever.
Commissioner Morris says Amen.
Mr. Waitz "As I said before I am more than willing to sign
feasibility report. I define anybody to sign a report
that says that the 75 or 80 cents a gallon that they'rE:
going to build a plant that has pretreatment that will
bring it up to 2, 000, 000 gallons a day or even just a
400, 000 gallon a day addition and take care of meeting
NOT CLEAR ON TAPE standards with the old existing plant.
Then I have great difficulty in accepting those numbers.
Those are funny numbers And I think it will be
proven' when you get your bid one way or another someone
is going to design you a plant and you will be getting
bids and we will see. The proof of the pudding is in tri,
ting it, they say.
PAGE FIFTEEN V V
MINUTES NAME OF
-RIL 13, 19£'• COMMRS. MSYN
Gulliford "What is the tradeoff Mr. Waitz. Is the tradeoff
.as alluded to odor and sludge generation? Is that really
the tradeoff?
Waitz says let 's take each one separately. With respect
to sludge generation, under the complete mix mode it is
possible that you will create more sludge however, we are
providing twice, twice, double the amount of sludge
digestion that you would have under, under extended
aeration, but therefore. NOT CLEAR ON THE TAPE.
With respect to odors, we •did a little bit of research
because I was concerned about even the present plant.
Your present plant right now we put some deals at the
bottom of the tank and your only at 65 to 70% of capacity
right now as you all know and your deal is at best,
minimum. You 're running 3/10 of a half of million. Those
samples were not taken during the peak hours. So I would
say that in our design we intend to look into this matter
and provide an additional aeration. I 'm of the opinion
you 're going to stop having those problems. NOT CLEAR ON
TAPE Provide enough air and you're not going to have odor
)blems. A sewage plant is a sewage plant but it
?sn ' t smell like a bed of roses.
Cook "Is the Buckman Plant that creates the odor in town
a complete mix plant? Waitz "I don't know about the
Buckman Plant creating odors, I really am unaware of the
Buckman Plant. I think in •the past they have had some
problems. Cook "Is it a complete mix plant? Waitz says
I have no personal knowledge. I would be willing to NOT
CLEAR ON TAPE if it is, it is.
Gulliford "You did not design the Buckman Plant? Waitz
says no, I did not. NOT CLEAR ON TAPE
Mayor Howell "Mr. Waitz let me ask you a question that
has been brought up which seems to be of more concern to
those than it is to me because when the purchase of
Buccaneer was first brought initially before the City
Commission, I initially brought it before the commission.
I gave some thought to the expansion of the plant because
I knew it would have to be done. I don't even then nor
even now have that much concern about if we don't go
retained whatever that we' re going to be having search
for land where that doesn't bother me too much because I
think there's a much simpler answer that what we would do
change the flow of some of the sewage from from for
stance the ocean walks subdivision which is going to
Buccaneer which initially was going to come into our
PAGE SIXTEEN V V
MINUTES NAME OF
COMMRS. MSYN
Atlantic Beach Plant but we changed that .Liuw. 'hat
, could be changed again and picked up at stuff along
Mayport Road could be very easily switched back to be
treated at the Atlantic Beach Plant. So that fact
doesn't bother me quite as much as it may be bothering
some other people. I sort of listened to what you've
said, I 'm not going to sit up here and try to kid you ai
anybody else. In the report you gave, that I sat up all.
night reading it because very frankly I wouldn't. know
what you were talking about to begin with. I 'm not an
engineer, I 'm a layman. I 've listened to what Mr. Potter
said but that's about all 'I can do. I think we pay
engineers and we must listen to their advice as we do to
the advice of our attorney. I may not agree with him,
but I certainly feel I have to listen to him because hE
has a law degree and I don't. Very simply one of the
questions in my mind and I think your idea is great and
if it is really practical I 'm all for it. I just
honestly don't know. I think we need to think about the
cost features. One of the reasons I think that the City
of Atlantic Beach and Jacksonville Beach and Neptune
Beach jointly went together to go to the St. Johns River
we did not want to get into tertiary treatment. Had we
_ ne into tertiary I think we could have continued to
discharge into the Intercoastal Waterway but I think we
all know that's an extremely process over the many years
that we have to look forward to. I just want a really a
very simple answer. Bottom line is going to this
retained treatment. Is it more expensive over the years
to come, and if it is, is that expense really going to be
offset by additional costs in the future or something
else? NOT CLEAR ON TAPE.
Waitz " I think in the most simplistic way I can answer
you NOT CLEAR ON TAPE. If I was spending my own money
rather than the city 's money, my choice would be to go
with the complete mix. That's my professional opinion.
I have given you my professional opinion and my report
and I ' m telling you if it was my own money I was spending
out of my own pocket that is the treatment mode that I
would go.
Bob Cook "May I ask you a question? You talking about a
complete mix for the additional or convert what we have
now to a complete mix.
Waitz "I 'm talking about a NOT CLEAR ON TAPE of what you
have now and we're going to make some modifications
thin the plant and turn the whole plant what you have
PAGE SEVENTEEN V V
MINUTES NAME OF
APRIL 13, 1987 COMMRS. MSYN
now, a 1. 05 mgd plant into a 2. 0 mgd complete mix plant,
. with pretreatment.
Cook "But it will all be complete mix, none of it will be
extended aeration. Is that what your saying.
Waltz "You can operate it in the extended aeration mode
up until 1. 3 mgd capacity. Obviously, if you don't have
the flow coming in to throw it into the complete mix mods
then you operating it in the extended aeration mode unti..
such time as you reach a certain flow. There's nothing
magic, there was not a fine line where complete mix
starts and then extended aeration begins or vice versa.
Bob Cook "All I can say is I have to concur with the
Mayor, I am a layman. I am not an engineer. I don't
know really much about what your talking about. But when
you have to listen to engineers, when one engineer stands
up and says, complete mix is a step backwards, the next
engineer steps up and says complete mix is what I recom-
mend it leaves us in the middle of a not knowing what
you're talking about.
itz "I apologize, I apologize for the commission having
to go through this dilemma. It should never should have
happened. I 'm embarrassed. Bob Cook "Well maybe it
should have happened, you know if you only get one opi-
nion you go with the one opinion. Morris "But we only got
one opinion because of the mandates of the great State o1
Florida Bob Cook "I understand that We are
still talking about a lot of money, and a lot of money
for a long time, and a possibility of an odor I certainly
don't want in our city. Morris "It isn ' t in your city.
NOT CLEAR ON TAPE (all talking at same time)
Edwards "It 's like the gentleman said, if you give it
enough air in there and the plant is run properly, you 're
not going to get an odor. We haven't had an odor up here
for years. Cook "That 's right it 's extended aeration,
isn't it. Edwards "but we're operating it right, that 's
why. Cook "Maybe my ignorance is showing, maybe it
doesn't make any difference, I don't know the difference
between the two. But when two engineers stand up and NOT
CLEAR ON TAPE oppose each other about methods then I
don ' t how I can make an intelligent decision. Gulliford
"Well I don't know about the intelligent decision part
of it, but I think that if after review of a committee
0 a review and affirmation by the commission and by
virtue of entering into an agreement where you're going
PAGE EIGHTEEN V V
MINUTES NAME OF
COMMRS. MSYN
to pay people money that you've put enough confidence
in these folks, you 're going to pay them money. Then ,y
money is going to go on the guys that we've put the money
on or that we're paying the money to and I think you're
point was well taken. Where do we draw the line. I 'm
sure that we could go and roust out some other engineer
who would come in here and support Mr. Waitz's position,
but then what would happen if another one followed
through the door and supported Mr. Potter's position and
then we would go on infinitum until we found that last
engineer that had not advanced an opinion yet.
Cook "So, you know we're supposed to make a decision on
whose got the best looking suit of clothes on tonight.
Gulliford "No I think it 's more than that. I think we
are supposed to decide whether the recommendation, beim
lay people, that the recommendation based on what little
we know and the little knowledge we have in that area,
whether we feel like what 's being presented to us by thf
people that we've hired as a recommendation seems to be
sensible, and I defer to Glen on this one because he's
had a lot of practical experience operating, and he seems
' o be agreeable or amenable to that direction. Is that
of right, is that your drift.
Edwards "Your darn right and you put the air in there,
your not going to have an odor problem. Gulliford
"You're Mr. Frye. NOT CLEAR ON TAPE Morris "But we
stand ready to preside it any way the commission in their
wisdom tells us to.
Mayor Howell "I think one thing needs to be explained
right here, the question before us is not whether we're
going to hire these people to design whatever 's going to
be designed. They 're hired to do that. That 's done ani:
over with. The only question is are we going to go
extended air or are we going with chain complete mix.
Morris "Complete. mix. I think the question is are we
going with Edwards "NOT CLEAR ON TAPE extended air up
until 1. 3 million gallons a day. Then we' ll go to
extended air. Complete mix.
END OF VERBATIM
PAGE NINETEEN V V
MINUTES NAME OF
APRIL 13, 1987 COMMRS. MSYN
4.A. Waitz and Frye, Inc. - continued
Motion: Follow the recommendations of our Engineer, Waitz and Frye,
Inc. on the plant and go with the complete mix design Edwards x
as he suggested. Gulliford x
Following discussion, the question was called and the motion carried Cook x
four to one. Commissioner Cook voted nay. Edwards x
Gulliford x
Morris x
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * :: * * * * * * * Howell x
The Mayor declared a five minute recess at 8:30 p.m.
Mayor Howell called the meeting back to order at 8:35 p.m.
4.B. Attorney John Dickinson to present a proposed Memorandum of
Understanding settling the impasse dispute between the City of Atlantic
Beach and the Police Union
Mr. John Dickinson for Commission consideration an agreement reached
with the Fraternal Order of Police to resolve the impasse of negotia-
ions for the year 1986-87. The bargaining started in June, 1986 and
_fter four meetings, an impasse was declared. A Special Master was called
in to assist the parties in reaching the tentative agreement which was
presented to the Commission.
Motion: Recommend approval of the Memorandum of Understanding Cook x x
settling the impasse dispute between the City of Atlantic Edwards x
Beach and the Police Union. Gulliford x x
Morris x
No discussion before the vote. Motion carried unanimously. Howell x
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * .'< * * *
4.C.Melody Linger representing Gee and Jenson, to present tabulations
and recomendations relative to bids received on the City of Atlantic
Beach proposed Public Safety Building
Ms. Melody Linger said the bids were opened on April 7th at 2:00 p.m.
Bid tabulation attached hereto and made a part hereof.
At the 50% phase of the design, it was suggested she look into piling
construction for that particular site. As it turned out, it was a little
over $10,000 less to go with piling opposed to removing the poor soil.
The poor soil on the site was what made the building price skyrocket.
The low bidder was Adcox Construction Co,Inc. ,Jacksonville at $600,000.
She suggested taking off Alt.#1 (piling cost) $13,000 and add Alt.#2
'demolition) $10,800 which Gee and Jenson recommended. Originally, they
ad recommended the city do the demolition work. She listed the reasons
why they changed the recommendation. The low bidder price then would be
$597,800.00. Ms. Linger recommended Alts. 3, 4, 5, and 6 not be awarded.
PAGE TWENTY V V
MINUTES NAME OF
APRIL 13, 1987 COMMRS. MSYN
4. c Melody Linger - continued
Motion: If the City is able to secure the funds, then the bid Cook x x
will be awarded to the low bidder, Adcox Construction Edwards x
Co. , Inc. in the amount of $597,800.00, based on the Gulliford x x
recommendation of the Engineers, Gee & Jenson. Morris x
Howell x
Ms. Linger said the bids would be good for 60 days. The Commission
will take action on the subject before the deadline of 60 days.
Following discussion before the vote. , the question was called and
the motion carried unanimously.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ;; * * * * * * * * *
4. D. Lawrence Ross requesting approval of his application for a
security office trailer on his property off Levy Road as provided
under Section 24-158 of the City Code.
Mr. Ross told the Commission he wanted to provide quality storage
for sailors when they are out to sea. He asked for permission to
ut a security trailer on the land for a period of not more than
..ne year. He planned to install a 6' barb-wire fence and security
lights around the property. His permanent building would be con-
structed hopefully in 1988.
Motion: Approve request by Mr. Lawrence Ross for a security Cook x
office trailer to be located on his property off Levy Edwards x x
Road, with the understanding the trailer will be removed Gulliford x x
no later than May 1, 1988. Morris x
Howell x
Following discussion before the vote. , the question was called and
the motion carried unanimously.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * :: * * * * * * * *
PAGE TWENTY-ONE V V
MINUTES NAME OF
APRIL 13, 1987 COMMRS. MSYN
5. Action by the City Commission to accept for maintenance the public
facilities in the following projects:
1. Deerfield Lakes Condominiums Phase I in the Buccaneer Water and
Sewer District
The City Manager reported all necessary documents had been received.
Motion: Accept for maintenance the public facilities for Deerfield Cook x
Lakes Condominiums Phase I in the Buccaneer Water and Edwards x x
Sewer District. Gulliford x x
Morris x
No discussion before the vote. Motion carried unanimously. Howell x
* * * * * * * is * * * * * * * * * * * .. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
2.Oceanwalk Project Phase 3 in the Buccaneer Water and Sewer District
Mr. Fellows advised the Commission that all necessary documents had been.
Motion: Accept for maintenance the public facilities for Oceanwalk Cook x
Project Phase 3 in the Buccaneer Water & Sewer District. Edwards x x
Gulliford x x
fo discussion before the vote. Motion carried unanimously. Morris x
* '* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * is * is * is * * * * *
Howellx
6. Authority for the Mayor and Clerk to execute an agreement with the
Department of Community Affairs for hazard mitigation
Mr. Fellows told the Commission the agreement was an interim measure
that would keep the City from having to spend an inordinate amount of
money to develop a hazard mitigation element until our Comprehensive
Plan was complete.
Motion: Authorize the Mayor and City Clerk to execute agreement Cook x
with the Department of Community Affairs for hazard Edwards x x
mitigation. Gulliford x x
Morris x
Following discussion, the question was called and the motion carried Howell x
unanimously.
< * * * * * * * * * * * * * .. * * * .. * * * * * * .. * * * * * * *
7. Action on Ordinances:
A. Ordinance No. 90-87-119- First Reading
AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE ORDINANCE CODE OF THE CITY OF ATLANTIC BEACH
FLORIDA, AMENDING CHAPTER 24, ARTICLE III, DIVISION 7, SECTION 24-161
"'0 PROVIDE A NEW SUB-SECTION (i) WHICH SAID SECTION PROVIDES PROCEDURES
rOR REQUESTING DEVIATIONS FROM OFF-STREET PARKING AND LOADING REQUIRE-
MENTS; PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.
Mayor Howell presented in full, in writing Ordinance No. 90-87-119 on
PAGE TWENTY-TWO V V
MINUTES NAME OF
APRIL 13, 1987 COMMAS. M S Y N
-----------------
Action on Ordinances - continued - A
first reading.
Motion: Passage of Ordinance No. 90-87-119 on first reading. Edwards x
Gulliford x
Commissioner Morris asked why the proposed Ordinance was necessary.
Mr. Fellows explained the city had been granting parking variations
by variance, and the proposed Ordinance would require that parking
deviations be done by exceptions, and the final decision would be
by the City Commission. Commissioner Morris stated the Commission had
allowed deviations sometimes by exceptions and sometimes by variance.
The Ordinance had nothing to do with new or used structures, it only
provided a method of granting parking deviations, where required. The
question was asked if the problem of the last discussion on parking
would be addressed, relative to the part in the Ordinance that did not
apply to buildings built prior to 1983. A lengthy discussion followed.
Commissioner Morris asked for a legal opinion on the meaning of Section
24-161.d. Mr. Mullis stated that referred to the enumerated uses in
that paragraph. If not enumerated, it would be the others. You would
still have to go back to 24-161(a) as to what buildings and structures
it would apply to, and also to determine the minimum off-street require,-
lents on any use. Commissioner Morris said the intent of the entire
article that all uses (any business that came into the city) were to
provide off-street parking and loading. For example, he said if bowling
alleys needed more than 4 spaces for each alley, he thought the city
should amend the article and give them 5, or if Ragtime or businesses
in that section needed more than their allotted space, the city should
legally give it to them so they did not have to appear before the
Commission every time they needed to increase by 2 or 3 spaces.
Commissioner Gulliford suggested, rather than continuing discussion,
it would be more appropriate for the City Manager, Commissioner Morris
and the Chief of Police to research the parking Ordinances and suggest
amendments. He also suggested they might hold a Workshop Meeting at
some future date to only discuss parking.
To comply with Robert's Rules of Order, Commissioner Gulliford called
the question. Motion for passage of Ordinance No. 90-87-119 on first Cook x
reading carried unanimously. Edwards x
Gulliford x
The Mayor set the Public Hearing for April 27, 1987. Morris x
* * * * * * ;: * * :; :r * * :; k * * * t * * * :; * * * >ti * Howell x
B. Ordinance No. 90-87-116 - Final Reading and Public Hearing
AN ORDINANCE ZONING PROPERTY HEREIN DESCRIBED OWNED BY LOUIS MacDONELL
t al FROM RS2 RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY AND OR OPEN RURAL TO PLANNED
JNIT DEVELOPMENT (PUD) AS DEFINED UNDER THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE;
PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.
PAGE TWENTY-THREE V V
MINUTES NAME OF
APRIL 13, 1987 COMMRS. M S Y N
Action on Ordinances - continued
Mayor Howell presented Ordinance No. 90-87-116 in full, in writing on
second and final reading. Said Ordinance was posted in line with Charter
requirements. The Mayor introduced Mr. MacDonell and his Associates to
offer their presentation.
Mr. John A. Merritt, representing Selva Linksides Partnership spoke on
behalf of the Partnership. He said their land was between Selva Marina
Country Club and 11th St. They had requested the zoning be changed from
OR to PUD to build single family detached homes with a zero lot line
concept. The preliminary plans were to have approximately 149 units in
the project.
The Mayor opened the floor for a Public Hearing and invited comments from
the audience. Mr. Bob Croft, President of Selva Marina Club, stated the
Selva Marina Country Club had not been asked to use their land, and had
not given to the developers any permission to use any of the lands of the
Selva Marina Country Club for any purpose whatsoever.
Mr. Ed Martin, member of the Board of Governors, and responsible for the
golf course, said they were willing to sit down and discuss any plan
with the developers that would be mutually beneficial. They might provide
he land,if perhaps the developers would provide less density, and larger
__omes.
Mr. Steve Fouraker, 6th St. opposed the proposed development without fist
ordering a traffic analysis. He also opposed any trade off of city land.
The Mayor told him no trade off of city land was contemplated in the
concept presented. The only city land involved was a cross-over for a
street to connect two pieces of property.
Mr. Tom Burdette, Selva Marina Drive, said he was an engineer and the
only place the water could go unless they put a storm drain pump station
was on Selva Marina's land. The developers could not connect the two
lagoons. Mr. Fellows stated the developers had to submit engineering
plans to an unrelated engineer for review before the Commission would
approve the plans. Mr. Burdette reminded the Con:mission that land was
the last to be developed and they should look at any proposed develop-
ment very closely before making a decision.
Mr. John Tucker, 11th St. spoke in favor of the proposed concept, and
said property owners should be allowed to develop their land as long as
they met the Code and abide by the State laws which he felt sure those
developers would do. They did not plan to have a low class development.
Mr. Billy Bucanhan, 1510 Selva Marina Drive wanted a buffer area. He
objected to changing the zoning from OR to PUD.
s no one spoke for or against the Ordinance, Mayor Howell declared the
Public Hearing closed at 9:50 p.m.
PAGE TWENTY-FOUR V V
MINUTES NAME OF
APRIL 13, 1987 COMMRS. M S Y N
Action on Ordinances - continued
Commissioner Morris said, for the benefit of the audience, in the appli-
cation and review procedure, there were certain things that should be
presented to the city, for example, a rough plan. That's what the de-
velopers had done. The City Manager, after reviewing, expressed some
concerns, which Commissioner Morris read to the Commission. The Communi:y
Development Board recommended the rezoning request be approved. At their
meeting not one of those concerns was ever addressed. Commissioner Morris
said at the first reading of the Ordinance to rezone by the Commission,
not one of the City Manager's concerns was ever addressed. Commissioner
Morris expressed the opinion he had never seen one as poorly done in
his five years as Commissioner. There were great concerns relative to
city property being used, a little better than an acre being rendered
useless by the city to expand the utility. No where did the concept
address a swap of properties. All of Mr. Fellows concerns were to have
been done in the application and review procedure. He continued to
object on the grounds city property was involved in the PUD, and could •
not vote for the PUD based on the above facts.
Commissioner Gulliford originally was concerned about density, traffic,
etc. but after reading proposed concept again and the Ordinance governing
PUD, he expressed the opinion he would rather the city have some high
egree of control which they would have with PUD. He said patio homes,
Manned Unit Developments, zero lot lines, and that kind of development
was the norm now and would be in the future for Florida. He stated he
would vote for passage of the Ordinance. Commissioner Gulliford asked
that they involve representatives of Selva Marina Country Club in all
the future considerations of the project.
Mayor Howell asked Mr. Merritt relative to the cross-over on city pro-
perty if it would be possible to eliminate the southerly crossing.
Mr. Merritt said yes. They may be able to further design to shift the
northerly road so city property would not be hurt. Mayor Howell suggest-
ed they also look at the land closer to the sewer plant and see if a
trade could be made. Mr. Merritt will talk to the City Manager on that.
Commissioner Morris asked the City Attorney for his opinion on crossing
city property. Mr. MacDonell said there were two legal descriptions
for the requested right-of ways. There were four total. Mr. Mullis
stated he had some problems with locking the city in, in that manner in
a PUD for the use of city property. In that situation, the city would
be duly bound, if it was necessary to get ingress and egress to those
properties, to let them cross-over if they approved the concept. Com-
missioner Morris suggested if one of the Commissioners that was going
to vote for the concept, might want to consider amending the Ordinance
to address that property. Discussion followed.
-Ir. Mullis added that one thing that should be considered before re-
easing city property under the Constitution of Florida as far as
aiding any involvement in private venture, it would be advisable to
determine the purpose which the city property was acquired, and what
public use it was intended to be put to. Commissioner Morris said it was
PAGE TWENTY-FIVE V V
MINUTES NAME OF
APRIL 13, 1987 COMMRS. M S Y N
Action on Ordinances - continued
bought for a city yard. Mayor Howell said when they first starting dis-
cussing moving the city yard, the original plan did not go all the way
to the north, it stopped just north of where the city yard was located
now. Further negotiations with the Bull interests, (they were swapping
at that time the city yard for that particular piece of property) In
further negotiations they determined the Bull's had no use for the land,
so they made that whole swap. Technically, some of the land was not
acquired for any specific purpose, it was just included in the swap.
Commissioner Morris asked if it was perhaps a buffer to keep Mayport
traffic from coming through. Mayor Howell said no, that was never dis-
cussed. Discussion on Donner Road and Mayport Road traffic held.
Commissioner Morris asked for a commitment from Mr. MacDonel that they
would not connect up to Mayport Road. Mr. MacDonell and Mr. Merritt both
said Commissioner Morris had their commitment.
Mr. MacDonell offered a brief summary of their proposed Planned Unit
Development and compared their PUD with others in the city as to size,
density, etc.
Commissioner Cook said he lived between 13th and 14th Sts, and felt any-
ody living north of 14th should have been denied the use to come in,
uut they could not do that. He expressed the opinion the Commission
could not deny the developers. He and Commissioner Morris debated the
point. Following discussion, Commissioner Gulliford moved for the
following motion:
Motion: Move to pass Ordinance NO. 90-87-116 subject to involving Cook x
a representative of Selva Marina Country Club in all future Edwards x x
considerations and plans of the project. Additionally plans Gulliford x x
will provide prudent infrastructure that meets requirements Morris x
of city and adequate and proper drainage facilities will Howell x
be provided so as not to change natural water course that
would flood adjoining property. Lastly, final approval of
the project shall be subject to a suitable and equitable
trade of property for the proposed right-of-way which in-
fringes on city owned property.
During discussion before the vote, Mayor Howell said, relative to the
2 cross-overs, it should be made clear the city was not approving, or
was there any commitment for approving any ingress or egress over that
strip of city property. He said personally, he would like for parcel 2
to not be committed until they were further into the project. It was
agreed the motion covered the Mayor's concern. A lengthy discussion
followed on swapping land. Mayor Howell clarified the motion relative
to representatives of Selva Marina Country Club being involved. He said
hat did not eliminate any other interested parties. The meetings were
11 open to the public. Following discussion, the question was called
and the motion carried four to one. Commissioner Morris voted nay.
PAGE TWENTY-SIX V V
MINUTES NAME OF
APRIL 13, 1987 COMMRS. MSYN
Miscellaneous
Commissioner Morris asked the Commission to consider a Resolution for the
work that "Beaks Organization" has done and commending them for the work
they had done for the oil slick birds.
Motion: Instruct the City Attorney to prepare a Resolution commend- Cook x x
ing "Beaks Organization". Edwards x
Gulliford x
No discussion before the vote. Motion carried unanimously. Copies Morris x x
of the Resolution will be mailed to The City of Neptune Beach and the Howell x
City of Jacksonville Beach.
* * * * * * * * * .. * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * :: :4 * * * * *
There being no other business to come before the Commission, the Mayor
declared the meeting adjourned at 11:15 p.m.
4,0•00,10/L�a�
Wi -iiam S. Howell
Mayor/Presiding Officer
TTEST:
Adelaide R. Tucker
City Clerk
x ATLANTIC BEACH PUBLIC SAFETY BUILDING
No BID OPENING - BID NO. 8687-2
;' 2:00 P.M. APRIL 7 , 1987
•v mCC 7 CITY OF ATLANTIC BEACH CITY HALL
ti 1- .
ADD. ADD. BID ALT. ALT. ALT. ALT. ALT. ALT.
BIDDER #1 #2 BOND BASE BID #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6
Adcox Construction Company, Inc. x x x $600,000. (-)13,000 (+)10,800. (+)25,000 (+)2,200 (+)2,800 (+)3,000
P.O. Box 16485 f
Jacksonville, FL 32245
The Devcon Group, Inc. x x x $699,900 (-)27 ,450 (+)14,900 (+)21,700 (+)4,500 (+)3,850 (+)1,650
6837 Phillips Parkway
Jacksonville, Florida 32224
Dimare Construction Company x x x $719 ,800 (-)54,800 (+)25 ,000 )2
' (+)26,500 (+)4,400 (+ ,900 (+)2,500
4241 Baymeadows Rd, Suite 18
Jacksonville, FL 32217
FSG Construction of Jacksonville x x x $649 ,400 (-) 9,400 (+)18,500 (+)16,700 (+)1 ,400 (+)4,100 (+)1,800
1245 West Adams Street
Jacksonville, FL 32204
Hashman Construction, Inc. x x x $764,000 (-)71 ,243 (+)13 ,320 (+)58,960 (+)1 ,190 (+)4,290 (+)2,248
2730 Clydo Road, Suite 1
Jacksonville, FL 32207 ,
Shah Construction Co. , Inc. x x x $733,900 (-)66,950 (+)14 ,610 (+)18,510 (+)1 ,960 (+)4,370 (+)1 ,690
2006 Maracaib Road
Jacksonville, FL 32211
Ed White Constructors , Inc . x x x $635 ,000 (-)32,226 (+)14,610 (+)32,133 (+)1 ,154 (+)4,072 (+)1,450
2016 E. Adams
Jacksonville, FL 32202
1
1