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11-9-11 public mtg v MINUTES OF THE PUBLIC MEETING OF CURRENT ATLANTIC BEACH CITY COMMISSION AND NEWLY ELECTED COMMISSION MEMBERS HELD IN THE COMMISSION CHAMBER ON NOVEMBER 9, 2011 AT 3:00 PM City Commission Members present: Jonathan Daugherty Carolyn Woods Newly Elected Commission Members present: Mark Beckenbach Maria Mark Staff present: Nancy Bailey, Recording Secretary The meeting, which was held for the purpose of becoming more educated and informed concerning the basics of two (2) pension programs: Defined Benefit and Defined Contribution was called to order at 3:02 p.m. Mark Beckenbach thanked everyone for attending, stating their objective was to become more educated and informed concerning the basics of the two pension programs, defined benefit and defined contribution. He apologized to Michael O' Shields for including him in the agenda without communicating with him directly. Mr. Beckenbach stated although he would like to follow the agenda he prepared, Mr. Mayhew informed him he would not need twenty minutes to convey to them what the defined contribution program is, but stated he would also like to discuss some concerns he has with the defined benefit program. He welcomed Vince Champion and Mike Scudiero from Coastal Florida Police Benevolent Association. Order of Business — 1) Visitor Comments from the floor Maria Mark opened the floor to public comments. There were no comments. 2) Pension Discussion A) Defined Benefit Overview Mr. Beckenbach turned the floor over to Vince Champion and Michael Scudiero of Coastal Florida Police Benevolent Association. Mr. Champion turned the discussion over to Mr. Scudiero, stating he handles most of their pension issues. Mr. Champion stated, as Mr. Beckenbach alluded that Mr. Mayhew has some concerns about the defined benefit plan, they would also like to hear what those concerns are so they may be able to answer them. Mike Scudiero, 1166 Pelican Bay Drive, Daytona Beach - Communications Director for Coastal Florida PBA, pointed out that the City of Atlantic Beach currently has a defined benefit plan, stating they have found that these type of plans work more effectively for the higher risk professions such as Police and Fire employees and explained his reasons for this. He stated the plan in Atlantic Beach is overall well funded especially as compared to some surrounding agencies that are in much deeper financial trouble. He explained the rate the Commission has been forced to contribute historically has been in the mid -20s percentage wise of payroll and understands that spiked last year, which Minutes November 9, 2011 Page 2 understandably caused concern. He stated he also believes that will not be the new working number and the City will not see 36% going forward. He stated at the end of the day it is in their interest to assure that the men and women they represent have a solid plan in place to serve them in their retirement. He stated it is not in their interest to try to front -load these plans knowing that the City will not be able to continue to sustain it and have it go belly up when the officers need it most. He stated they will work with the City when it comes to tweaking benefits or changing some of the requirements in the plan so it keeps that an affordable proposition for the City that will then be there long -term for the officers. He answered questions regarding retirement age, vesting and partial vesting, and explained what the Coastal Florida PBA is. Dale Hatfield, Chairman of the PBA Police Union, also answered questions from the Commissioners regarding vesting. Commissioner Daugherty asked if Mr. Beckenbach and Ms. Mark had met with George Foster yet on the pension. Mr. Beckenbach stated he had met with him. Ms. Mark stated she had met with Mr. Foster but not specific to the pension. B) Defined Contribution Overview — Bill Mayhew Mr. Mayhew distributed several handouts to the PBA and Commission. He stated there is a serious problem in the pension market, not just Atlantic Beach, but all over the United States cities are in trouble. He suggested the Commissioners Google City Bankruptcies or go to pensiontsunami.com. Mr. Beckenbach asked that Mr. Mayhew explain the defined contribution pension plans. Mr. Mayhew discussed defined contribution plans versus defined benefit plans explaining the differences of each. He stated in a defined benefit plan all the risk is on the City. He stated the City budgeted $160,000 next year to pay the actuaries to run our defined benefit plan and pointed out that you do not need to pay an actuarial for a defined contribution plan. Discussion ensued regarding the payments to the actuary. Mr. Mayhew stated there is over $7 million in unfunded actuarial liability in the defined benefit plan. Mr. Mayhew answered several questions from the Commission. Mr. Champion further answered questions from the Commission. Commissioner Woods stated the funded rate for the pension was close to 80% when she got on the Commission and believes it is now down to 67 %. She asked if there is a feasible way to catch up with our pensions stating she believes it is getting pretty risky to be at only 67% funded. Commissioner Daugherty stated he believes this will be the most important item the Commission will have to deal with in the upcoming year and pointed out that on the next agenda there is a budget amendment that includes two budget adjustments, one for $145,000 for the general employee pension trust fund and one for $47,000 for the police pension that were not budgeted for. Mr. Mayhew referred to several emails he had previously sent to the Commission. He stated the payroll for Atlantic Beach is $6.4 million; the total cost of employee benefits is $3.4 million which is 53% of payroll. He stated the pension contribution, alone, next year is going to represent 24% of payroll. He stated as a rule of thumb benefits should not exceed 35 -40% of pay. He stated the point he is trying to make is that you shouldn't look at the pension in isolation from the rest of the benefits. He stated health insurance is 16% of payroll, which added to the pension, is a total of 40% of payroll. He also discussed the assumptions used to predict what the City would need 30 years from now to pay the retirement benefits and stated he believes the 8% investment return is overly optimistic. Minutes November 9, 2011 Page 3 Questions from the Commission Mr. Scudiero, Mr. Champion and Mr. Mayhew answered several questions from the Commission with Mr. Scudiero explaining the yearly change in the assumptions and the percentage of funding by the City. Mr. Hatfield, speaking as the Chairman of the PBA Police Union, explained the Pension Board dictates what the percentage will be by using actuary studies paid through the fund, not the City. He stated there was much discussion in many meeting about whether it should be 8% or 7% and all the investment advisors said to leave it at 8 %. He stated he wanted 7.5% and they overrode him and set it at 8 %, but at 7.5% it would have immediately cost the City $1.5 million the next day. Mr. Champion further explained the funding, referring to the 185/175 plans, and the unfunded liability. He clarified that the pension plans pay for the actuary, not the City. He stated the $160,000 amount that was in the budget was requested by the City to do a plan to look at the pension to see whether they would keep it or not. He stated it wasn't for the actuaries they get from the pension plan. Commissioner Daugherty expressed his appreciation to Mr. Mayhew, Mr. Champion and Mr. Scudiero for coming and taking the time to speak with the Commission. Mr. Champion invited the Commissioners to attend the negotiation meetings, but pointed out that they would not be able to speak. He stated they are willing to work with the City. Mr. Hatfield stated a lot of the history has not been talked about. He stated 20 years ago they paid 9% into the fund and through contract negotiations, in lieu of raises, they let their contribution go down. He stated they agree it is an issue and would love to sit down with the Commission and discuss it more. Mr. Mayhew gave his closing remarks explaining his professional background in insurance and stating he has also been in the pension consulting business over his entire professional career. Mr. Scudiero gave his closing remarks, stating they would rather see the plan fixed than flushed. Maria Mark thanked the participants for coming stating there is no easy answer and she hopes we can keep the communication lines open, keep an open mind to negotiate in good faith and come to a workable solution. Mark Beckenbach thanked everybody for coming stating he really appreciated it. He stated he was sure they will be in contact. He stated this was definitely an education. There being no further discussion, the meeting was adjourned at 4:23 p.m. Z Nancy E. ley Recording ecretary