Minutes 1-7-12 Minutes of the Town Hall Meeting
Adele Grage Cultural Center
January7,2012
Attendance:
Mayor Mike Borno
Mayor Pro Tem Maria Mark
Commissioner Beckenbach
Commissioner Daugherty
Commissioner Woods
Donna L. Bartle, City Clerk
Mayor Borno called the meeting to order at 10:00 am. Mayor Pro Tem Mark explained the purpose of the
meeting and encouraged comments from citizens to be used during Strategic Planning.
She introduced Leslie Katz from AmeriCorp Vista, a volunteer with Beaches Habitat and also Joyce
Freeman, Director of Habitat.
Leslie Katz reported that over the last 20 years Beaches Habitat has been working to build simple, decent
affordable homes at the beaches. They are now looking to expand their program by launching the
Neighborhood Revitalization initiative to try to end substandard housing at the beaches. She explained
they need to get input from citizens to be successful and that surveys are available. She reported that they
are already working with the Dutton Island gardeners in order to launch a community garden on Dutton
Island Road.
Mayor Pro Tem Mark explained it is time to get comments from the audience.
Sally Clemens, 1638 Park Terrace W., would like to see a change in the Charter that in order to run for
office you should be a United States citizen for five years and a citizen of Atlantic Beach for three years.
She explained that the same criteria used for obtaining a driver license should be used to prove residency.
Bill Mayhew, 1870 N. Sherry Drive, commented on several topics which are included in his written letter
(which is attached and made part of this Official Record as Attachment A).
Mitchell Reeves, 1663 Sea Oats, thanked the Commission for having these meetings. He explained he
was hoping that these meetings would be by a set agenda which he believes is the right way. He stated no
disrespect to Bill Mayhew because he is passionate and wishes all citizens would be that way, but these
things are getting drawn out for hours. He indicated that when he mentioned it to Commissioner Woods,
her reply was if you don't like it you don't have to stay, you can leave. He stated he thought that was very
strong. He stated his point is that he would like to see the format of the future meetings be set so citizens
who have concerns or questions can ask Commissioners direct questions and get answers, because you
can't ask questions at the City Commission meetings, . He stated he would like to see the City Manager
attend these meetings. Mr. Reeves also explained he would like to see them reevaluate districts because he
believes that the Commissioners don't represent a district. He stated you could actually lose the vote in
your own district and still be elected as Commissioner for that district. He doesn't understand the logic
since it is still at- large. He wants the Commission to look back at the Charter and go back to at- large. He
also stated that it is so easy for three people to take control of this City. He believes they should look into
increasing the number of commissioners to seven. He further stated it is interesting when times are tough,
Minutes of the Town Hall Meeting on January 7, 2012 Page 1 of 5
money's tight, and people don't have jobs the passion comes out. He stated he hopes the passion continues
with the Commission and the citizens, but when the economy turns around, people are going to go other
ways and do other things. He stated if you really look, you can find some bad things, but there are a lot of
good things that the Commission does. He stated even in cases where he didn't vote for someone, he still
supports them because they were elected by the people and he puts the trust in them. He also stated the
pension thing is not easy, but he knows that in the end, they will come out with the right decision.
Commissioner Beckenbach asked for clarification. Mr. Reeves clarified his suggestion is that each district
should vote for their own Commissioner, go to seven Commissioners and have the District Commissioners
individually voted by their district, and the Mayor and two other Commissioners at- large.
Commissioner Daugherty explained that he lost in his district and supports it the way it is because in the
two years that he has been in office, there have been maybe a handful of decisions that directly impacted
that specific district. Most of the decisions made by the Commission affect the city as a whole. It is a
struggle to get support from my neighborhood simply because there is a higher percent of renters and also
because there is disenfranchisement. A lot of people thought the City didn't care about them and that was
one of the reasons why he ran. He explained that was the way it was voted on in the referendum, which
was not something the Commission decided. He stated we make decisions for the City as a whole, but we
live in that area and therefore we care about that area. He explained things he has done and is doing in that
area.
Jesse Dattilo, 1983 Beach Avenue, reported she has been reading in the Wall Street Journal for the past
three years about communities all around this country who are in serious financial problems because of
unfunded liabilities which they ignored year after year. She indicated it scares her to hear it is happening
here. She believes that whoever makes the forecast in budgets, be extremely conservative in their numbers
and forecast.
Rita Kisseadoo, 483 Aquatic Drive, stated she noticed the areas such as Seminole Road, etc. have
beautiful landscaping. She explained her community is the area that has the beaches pool and the area at the
entrance of the community is in dire need of landscaping. She stated she has lived here for almost 26 years
and has brought it up to her District Commissioner but has not seen anything happen as a result of that and
wants to know why they are being neglected.
Tom Trost, 2343 Oceanforest Drive W., wanted to know if the City has ever done an analysis of
compensation for public employees with the other beach communities. It was answered, yes. Mr. Trost
also expressed concern about the blighted areas. He stated he believes there are a lot of neighborhoods that
are great and also Town Center, but when you start going west from the ocean it's not so great. He
expressed concern about the vacant Publix building being empty and asked if there is going to be a tenant
coming in. He also asked about the vacant property near the flyover. Commissioner Beckenbach reported
that he's heard LA Fitness is looking at taking over the old Publix building and the Commission recently
voted to allow for a variation to the sign ordinance to allow them to have their marquee a little bit larger
than Code allows and believes they plan to come within the next six months or so. He explained, regarding
the area by the flyover, he spoke to the City's building inspector and was told that the City contacted the
owner of the property and asked him to knock down all of the buildings that were there because of the
serious problems of vagrants. He further explained they went in and tore it down and left the slabs. He
explained that the property is in foreclosure, but the City has been contacted by individuals that are
interested in that property in order to do something with it. Discussion ensued about vacant businesses.
Kelly Elmore, 1650 Beach Avenue, member of the Community Development Board, stated he believes
that the market should dictate what takes place, but the government can play a role in our zoning code and
Minutes of the Town Hall Meeting on January 7, 2012 Page 2 of 5
development code. He urged the Commission to develop an overlay for our Commercial Business District
(CBD). He explained that the current zoning codes in place would not allow any of the buildings in Town
Center to be built the way they are. The reason Town Center works is because of the zero -foot setback. He
suggested establishing the overlay for the CBD with guidelines that follow the current pattern that is
already there and extend it to Sailfish Drive. Mr. Elmore commented he believes in less government. He
reported he's seen a tremendous number of white pickup trucks that cruise the streets daily and believes the
City's services are outstanding, maybe too good, and the employees are wonderful, but he believes there
are too many of them. He commented that we should reign in our expenses and look into downsizing. He
further stated he believes these meetings are wonderful, but he does not want the Atlantic Beach
government micromanaging every aspect. He explained that neighborhood initiatives do more to help this
City than having government come in with a program. He also commented on the Police Building being a
bit extreme, but cautioned the Commission to research what the current requirements are for police
accreditation so that they remain accredited.
Mayor Pro Tem Mark explained one of her major initiatives she would like to start is to do a Citywide
development overlay for the City and the necessity for community input. Discussion ensued.
Art Corsano, 2314 Oceanwalk Dr. W., spoke about the vision needing to be fiscally responsible. He
agreed that these meetings are good because of the dialogue and believes the citizens don't always feel like
they have their input considered.
Commissioner Woods explained her idea of having an organizational review and the reasons for it. She
believes it is necessary to look at how the City operates and establish long -term goals in order to be fiscally
responsible.
Mark Tomaski, 448 Snapping Turtle Ct. W., stated he was pleased to see the number of people that
showed up. He agreed with Mr. Reeves' idea about increasing the number of Commissioners and asked
that it be considered in the next Charter change. He explained the problem with the Police Station is that it
uses our half -cent sales tax that can be used on any capital improvement. He believes the money should be
invested in capital improvements to improve our corridors. He reported he had spoken to some other
mayors and they explained they invest the money in their corridors and improve the frontage which
increases property value and tax. He also explained how critical he believes open government is. He stated
he is pleased with Commissioner Beckenbach having the open meetings with the City Manager and
believes they are very informative. He reported he has also gone to meetings in Neptune Beach and they
have workshops between Commission meetings. He explained that in workshops, the Commissioners are
more relaxed and can talk more freely. He stated he would like to see the Commission put in a system like
that, maybe have citizen input, and slow things down a little bit so they have time to get better ideas.
He expressed the importance of having the meetings available to citizens who cannot attend. He requested
the meetings be videotaped and believes it is inexpensive at less than $700 per month.
Glad Hogan, 2075 Vela Norte, thanked the Commission for having these meetings and stated she believes
Atlantic Beach is starting to change. She stated the City should be run like a business and supports
utilizing committees.
Mr. Trost explained that on the organizational review plan, one thing to think about is to really focus in on
systems and processes because the minute you talk about organization redevelopment, people think cost
reduction and getting rid of people. He explained that what really happens is people are doing what they
are told to do in their job description, which can be outdated, so all of a sudden you have five people doing
Minutes of the Town Hall Meeting on January 7, 2012 Page 3 of 5
the same job. He believes the description has to change, the process has to change and then there becomes
some savings. It is a total quality concept that gets deeply involved in the systems concept.
Greg Selby, 3 Forrestal Circle N., expressed concern about the flyover on Mayport Road. He explained
the problems including limited access to businesses, no access for police, fire and rescue and the traffic
congestion. He asked that the flyover be looked at and removed. He believes the way it is now is not good
for businesses and causes blighting. He suggested opening up Seminole Road to Hannah Park and
allowing people to go through there with their motor homes, cars and bicycles.
Someone commented from the audience thanking them for not opening the road to Hannah Park.
Patricia Goelz, 1359 Beach Avenue, commented about the water quality. She reported she doesn't know
anybody that drinks the water here, they either have bottled water or have a filter. She added that it is very
chlorinated.
Alan Gasparovic, 333 Saturiba Drive, spoke about pension plans and explained how the actuary controls
what goes into the pension plan and determines what kind of return you're going to get. He believes it
should be conservative and that 8% is unrealistic and explained why. He stated he realizes that the City has
to compete with other cities to get employees, but when you try to compete with cities like Jacksonville,
you have to look at the condition that city is in right now. He urged the City to stop offering things they
can't afford to pay for.
John November, 647 Beach Avenue, stated he has always been a big advocate of the beach and paddle
boarding, but he'd like for the City to acquire any piece of private property along the stretch from
Wonderwood Road to Atlantic Boulevard. He explained how important it is to protect the marshes. He
also suggested having the west side of Atlantic Beach become more pedestrian friendly by slowing down
the traffic on Main Street. He urged the Commission to spend money on things that are going to improve
the quality of life. He expressed an idea to connect Dutton Island to Tideviews and use capital
improvement funds. He stated instead of spending all that money on the Police Station, include them in the
dialogue and give them exactly what they need without over doing it. He believes if the City spends
money on the west side, those citizens will be proud. He also wanted to make sure that raccoons are not
being taken away from the community. Commissioner Daugherty explained that they are not.
Mr. Mayhew commented that all benefits should be looked at, not just the pension or leave time.
Ms. Katz gave a recap of her presentation from earlier and urged citizens to complete the survey.
Mr. Reeves asked the Commission to give an update on the State Pension Restriction and the Tipping Fee
issue. Mayor Borno gave an update on both. Mr. Reeves asked if we have been invoiced for the tipping
fees and have we paid. Mayor Borno answered yes they have invoiced us, but the invoices were sent back
with no intention to pay.
Mr. Elmore thanked the Commission for having these meetings and hopes that something will come out of
the input given. Mayor Pro Tem Mark explained the purpose of these meetings and the plan to use the
citizen input from these meetings during Strategic Planning. She added that a written report will be made
and will be available to the citizens.
Mr. Reeves suggested inviting Councilman Bill Gulliford to these meetings.
Ms. Clemens suggested having Police substations.
Minutes of the Town Hall Meeting on January 7, 2012 Page 4 of 5
Mr. Tomaski asked that these meetings be well publicized. The Commission explained the various places
signs and flyers were place.
Mr. Corsano asked if animal control can be addressed in the Interlocal Agreement. Discussion ensued.
Commissioner Daugherty asked if the audience feels the City has too much animal control. There were
citizens that answered both yes and no. Mr. Reeves suggested the City share the services with Neptune
Beach. Discussion ensued about whether there was a need for two animal control officers.
A citizen suggested that the City utilize some of the neighborhood watch programs that are set up and
explained how the process works.
A citizen asked for comments from the Commission regarding Selva Marina Country Club. Mayor Borno
explained the City is not involved in any action since it is a private entity and is incorporated. Further
comments were made and discussion ensued.
A citizen asked about the status of San Pablo Island. Mayor Borno explained it is a marketing concept that
a group is working on.
Lyman Fletcher, 804 East Coast Drive, asked about the City's water quality and the testing.
Commissioner Beckenbach explained he receives a report every year about the water quality. Someone
commented that they believe the water quality is getting worse.
Commissioner Beckenbach asked Mr. Elmore to explain information he has on the overlay. Mr. Elmore
explained the overlay that was put together for Atlantic Beach and Neptune Beach and answered questions.
Commissioner Woods suggested that the City have neighborhood kiosks.
Ms. Goelz requested signage be placed at the crosswalks on Seminole Road at Twentieth St. and at
Eleventh Street, but explained that East Coast Drive at Third Street has too much. Discussion ensued.
A citizen stated they believe the response time for fire and rescue has increased since the service was
transferred to Jacksonville and asked about the money saved by the transfer. Mayor Borno stated he would
have to research it to provide the amount and explained the way the call system works. Discussion ensued
about the fire service.
Ms. Goelz commented, on behalf of Jan Healy, that she'd like to see the overhead electric lines be buried
underground to save the tree canopy and to help the service. Ms. Goelz added that at her end of the beach
the power fluctuates a lot because when it doesn't rain much the salt builds up on the transformers. Mayor
Borno explained he could get an up -to -date report from JEA, but the chances of going underground is
$1,000,000 a mile and JEA will not pay for it. Discussion ensued about the possibility and the impact on
the environment.
Mayor Pro Tem Mark thanked everyone for attending, reminded them of the schedule for the remaining
Town Hall meetings, and explained the handouts provided.
Mayor Borno adjourned the meeting at 11:55 am.
a(AVY/4/ VA/le&
Donna L. Bartle, CMC
City Clerk
Minutes of the Town Hall Meeting on January 7, 2012 Page 5 of 5
ATTACHMENT A
COAB Citizens Input Meeting - Jan 7, 2012
I. Vision for City
-When I moved to Atlantic Beach 28 years ago, the city was friendly place with good
schools, nice parks, and a nice police department. It was a safe city and good place to raise
children. It was a great place to live with a minimum of interruptions from a city government
that was trusted. Animal Control was a one person position that actually tried to help stray
animals.
Something has happened over the years. Apparently the new vision has become to be a
"cutting edge" showplace in the world of city governments. We still have a great city with good
schools, nice parks, and a safe place to raise children, but we now also have a city bureaucracy
that is unresponsive to its citizens in certain major areas.
I don't know of any citizen that wants to guarantee, through their taxes, life -time defined
benefit retirement plans that would allow city employees to retire with 100% of average pay,
plus social security. Nor do I know any who want multi - million dollar unfunded liabilities
footnoted to the financial statement. Likewise I don't believe they want an oversized, multi-
million dollar police station or to have an Emergency Operation Center or an Emergency
Command Vehicle. Just who wants to live in a "cutting- edge" city that is the envy of other
small cities in Florida? Certainly not the tax payers. How about a referendum to see what the
citizens think?
If you really want to attract businesses, keep taxes low by eliminating the excesses of
becoming a "showplace ". If you really want satisfied taxpayers eliminate the defined benefit
plans that are financial burdens and adopt reasonable defined contribution plans like most
workers have, if they have a retirement plan at all. We want our city employees to be well paid
and to have reasonable benefits compared to what other workers have in our local market
place. We don't want a special class of citizens who receive special treatment because they are
city employees. Conduct city business conservatively with a full disclosure of what is going on.
Give citizen's ample time to address their concerns.
II. -The new Actuarial Valuation Reports are out. Great formats. Easy to interpret. The
actuaries understand their professional responsibility to disclose the whole picture. See
selected information attached. Contributions continue to rise, solvency ratios continue to
decline, and the situation worsens. Unfunded liabilities are to go up another $846,590 to
$8,693,434 and would be higher if a lower yield assumption was used. Only one time in the past
ten years has the investment yield been over 8% on the Police Plan, and twice on the General
Employee Plan. The average yields have been around the 4.4 % -4.9% range.
Certainly the "sky's not falling" but it is time for significant tax increases to underwrite
the excessive programs that the city has undertaken.
Page 2-
III. - Police Building
-One of the primary campaign planks of the "Marks" was to stop this new police building. The
details have been discussed repeatedly. We the voters who voted you "Marks" in expect you to
keep your campaign promises.
IV. - Personal Leave Time
-To understand this program let's convert the city formula for hours of leave to comparable
weeks of time off in the private sector. In the private sector if one gets two weeks off that
means 10 working days. The City Plan:
Yrs of Ser. Leave Hours Leave Days (8 hour days) Weeks of Leave
0 -3 151 18.825 3.77
4 -7 176 22
4.4
8 -11 216 27 5.4 Plus 11 Holidays
12 -15 256 32 6.4
16+ 272 34
6.8
To get almost 4 weeks leave your first year of service is unheard of. Additionally the employee
gets 11 paid national holidays. Please note that this program has no sick leave separate from
the hours provided. This program is far out of line with what ordinary citizens receive. The city
should be able to reduce staff by 5 -6 employees by going to a conventional plan and adding a
sick leave program.
V. -Other Comments
A. I have never said that any retiree has received 100% of pay, only that the pension plans
allow for this possibility, plus social security resulting in possibly getting over 100 %.
B. I have never predicted what a yield would be. I have given you forecasts from nationally
recognized experts that give 5 -8% estimates of long term yields. The plans own actuary
said his sources ranged from 5 -8% and he recommended the use of 7.25 and 7.5% on the
plans.
C. I have tried to document every statement I have made. My purpose has been and is to
deal in facts and point out the down -sides of defined benefits plans and other overly rich
benefits which costs were budgeted to be a greatly excessive 54% of payroll this year.
William E. Mayhew, CPUC, CLU, ChFC
242 8629
COAB Pension Evaluations (Actuarial) for Plan Years Ending 9 -30 -13
The new pension studies for Atlantic Beach are out and following is a summary of some salient points.
1. City Contributions: (See pages A -1 and D -3)
2013 2012 2011 2010 2009
Police Plan $518,000 $540,000 $487,000 $425,000
General Plan $1,044,000 $999,000 $345,000
$723,000 $599,000 $528,000
$1,562,000 $1,539,000 $1,210,000 $1,024,000 $873,000
Note: Contribution increase leveled off because of change in salary increase assumption (3.8% versus 7.4 %.
Average increase has been 6.5% over last 10 years(B -11)). Yield on investments were 2.2% and 2.1% respectively
for the plans versus an 8% assumption. The averages have been around 4.5 %over the last 10 years. (A -2)
2. Contributions as a Percentage of Payroll (B -15, B -14)
2013 2012 2011 2010 2009 2008 2007
Police 36% 36 26 27 22 23 26%
General 26% 24 17 15 14 14 14%
3. Unfunded Actuarial Accrued Liability (B -9)
This Year Expected Last Year Change
Police $3,759,831 $3,284, 921 $474,910
General 54,933,603 $4,561,923 $371,680
$8,693,434 $7,846,844 $846,590
(Prior year totals were: 2010- $7,106,000; and 2011- $6,608,000)
The Unfunded Liability increased by $970,718 due to investment (mis)assumptions.
4. Short Term Solvency -Value of assets relative to liabilities. The trend is important. ( B -4, B -5)
Report says "should be fully covered by assets ".
2011 2010 2009
Police 72% 76% 77%
General 78% 85% 87%
5. Long Term Solvency- The % of Actuarial Liability covered by assets. (B -7, B -6)
2011 2010 2009 2008 2007 2006 2005 2004 2003 2002 2001
Police 63% 65 68 71 74 74 68 71 73 79 81%
General 69% 70 72 73 74 72 69 70 73 77 80%
6. Actuarial Investment Returns (B -11, B -10)
2011 2010 2009 2008 2007 2006 2005 2004 2003 2002 2001
Police 2.2% 4.7 3.8 4.6 9.4 7.8 4.4 2.4 2.2 2.6 6.3%
General 2.1% 5.0 4.2 4.9 10.0 8.5 4.9 2.3 1.7 1.5 5.1%
Police 5 year average is 4.9% and 10 year average is 4.4 %.
General average is 4.5 %. (Note: Only one year over 8% for Police, and two years for General.)
Page 2-
7. Funding Progress- Unfunded Actuarial Accrued Liability as a Percentage of Payroll (D -2)
2011 2010 2009 2008 2007 2006 2005 2004 2003 2002
Police 234% 200 163 159 134 148 158 137 143 92%
General 132% 119 95 92 88 91 95 89 78 63
8. Fund Assets (C -1))
2011 2010 Change
Police $6,056,405 $6,010,957 $45,448
General $10,417,807 $10,448,470 - $30,663
$16,474,212 $16,459,427 $14,785
Bill Mayhew
242 8629