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1-5-13 Minutes Atlantic Beach Town Hall Meeting January 5, 2013 Minutes City Commission Members present: Mike Borno, Mayor Maria Mark, Mayor Pro Tern Mark Beckenbach, Commissioner Jonathan Daugherty, Commissioner Carolyn Woods, Commissioner Approximately 56 Citizens attended The meeting was called to order at 10:00 am by Mayor Borno. He welcomed the citizens and explained this was a visioning meeting and the format and welcomed their suggestions. Then turned the meeting over to Commissioner Maria Mark for a review of the past Town Hall Meeting issues and comments. Commissioner Mark welcomed everyone and gave a recap of the main categories discussed in the 2012 visioning Town Hall Meetings: Charter Review: Qualifying candidates, expanding commission, open government, interlocal agreement Safety: crosswalks,police station, substation, neighborhood watch programs water quality and animal control Pension concerns: Health benefits, leave time Environmental Aesthetics: Aquatic Gardens,power lines underground Community visioning: city mission statements, blighted areas, Mayport corridor enhancement, business corridor, Selva Marina, sense of community Communications: PR between city and citizens, community kiosks Atlantic Beach West: more funding for community improvements, Roberts ditch, Rose Park, bus routes west First St. landscaping, senior and underserved services Mayport Ferry: hot topic at the time hopefully found solutions for this Mayport Village: anniversary and Mayport Waterfront Partnership funding Community Block Grant funding: Francis Ave, flooding Senior Center, community events, Speed bumps. Canoe access. All this information was taken into account when we did our strategic planning and the purpose of today's meeting is to gather information on citizen concerns for our strategic planning workshops this spring. From the Town Hall Meetings we got these strategic goals, in no particular order: Union Negotiations Budget Pedestrian Community Visioning Page 1 of 11 IT Software Tipping Fee Police Building Marsh Master Plan. This visioning Process really helps set the goals for the city. Commissioner Mark introduced Karen Kempf, a retired Parks and Recreation employee, who will be writing down all the comments for everyone to see. Please sign in. This will be an informal conversational process, not about any specific topic and not just about the Police Station. It is about any and all of your visions for the City to become and what the Commission should focus on. The Mayor stated if anyone had time constraints they could speak first. Citizens Comments: Jessie Dattilo: Unfunded Liabilities what is the level now compared to a year ago. Has the unfunded liability gone up or down. Daugherty: Changes to plan now will take 10 to 15 years to really have an effect. Mayor: We are basically level. Mark we have not received our current levels for the year yet. Woods: The city is not in charge of Union investment funds. City has changed how we invest our cash funds and we are making much better interest on our investments that we control. We have a proposal on the table with the Unions at an impasse now. If our plan passes it will cost more in the beginning and will make significant improvements in the next 10 years. Mayor working with FL legislature to get relief from unfunded liabilities imposed on cities. Michael Flannigan: Concern is the Police Building and that the total cost of ownership is considered. Has life cycle analysis been done? Initial acquisition cost and then the EOC cost and is concerned with the communications and IT equipment that would go in the EOC; they are expensive and the cost of maintaining is exponential. Plus the cost of staff and pensions that go along with this. Is retired and it was his duty then,with the Coast Guard, and now with the Air Force to analyze need and recommend communications and IT. Lifetime costs are many times the initial cost. Citizens will have to fund the ongoing operations and upkeep, the feed and care of anything we build. The State and Federal Governments have more than enough equipment at our disposal we should use theirs at no cost to us and not purchase our own. Page 2 of 11 Cindy Anderson: Thanked the Commission for their service. Here because of the police building. She discussed actions taken and not taken with the police building. Current building overcrowded. Why? Because of IT equipment, evidence, a lot more police officers. Since 1987 went 18 to 29 officers. Our population in 1990 - 11,636; 2010 - 12,655 - down 1,000 from 10 years ago; 10%population growth,police force 50%growth. Why the disparity. We have had a period of good financial times is this why we hired so many? Do we really need them; our population is aging so less crime. Why so many officers? Need to ask why can't we store offsite in low cost location?Even secured storage would be cheaper than where it it. Don't just accept the need for new. Look at it hard, does it all need to be in one building. The numbers for proposals is too high too much money. Also affects the pension fund. Reduce total liability by reducing staff. Start at square one when looking at this. Daugherty: I love being in a city where citizens are asking for fewer officers. Outside forces create the need for more officers. Dutton Rd., Jacksonville Beach bars letting out at night. Atlantic Beach residents want to be safe; it is a government duty to keep them safe. We hired two COPS through Federal program in order to clean up the Mayport area. Do we want to keep them?Average citizen is happy to live with minimal crime in AB. We have cut back in the past budget, cut unfilled police positions. Anderson: Seems reasonable to have offices on our major roads due to drunk drivers. Did we hire 50%more officers because we had 50%more crime. Borno: We like any other community have a drug problem, in all parts of town. These criminals move in and we need to be on top of it. What type and level of police services do we want for the city. Think about that and it will govern what we build. Anderson: If we need the force we have,then support them with an appropriate building. If problems are from Mayport Rd., why not put the facility there. Beckenbach: 4:30, Monday, January 14 we are having a Police Building workshop. Please come to this with your questions. Mark: This may be why the confusion about this meeting being about the Police Building. It is for the Commission to have discussion. Woods: Due to Sunshine laws need to have our discussions in public. As a Commission we have committed to once a month workshops and this is the first. I appreciate the question about what do we really want for services from our police force. We need to start there before we start the design. Bill Mayhew: Commission needs to continue to look for efficiency of scale especially with the police function. Should investigate consolidating force with Beach communities Page 3 of 11 or Jacksonville. Might save millions of dollars. Assuming it won't happen there is a good lot on Mayport Rd. for about$350,000; buy it and move on. Pensions - our unfunded liability has gone up to over$9 million and that is assuming an 8%return on investments, which just is not happening. Special magistrate hearing on Tuesday about the Pension negotiations impasse with the blue collar union. Commission has a great start by closing to new members but does not go near far enough. It is the existing plan and all of its benefits. It does not go far enough; the existing plan should be closed. City contributes 26%of salary to pension costs employees only pay about 6%this is not a fair balance. Not fair to taxpayers. If employees can't afford it and taxpayers can't afford it then you should get rid of it.National average is 35%cost of salary being paid for pension cost. Should be a reasonable goal. When you make a mistake common sense says try to correct it, if you can't afford past promises then you must adjust for the financial reality. Mitch Reeves: Main topic is Charter changes. I brought it up at last Town Hall meeting. First back to Police department as to why we have so many commanders, in FL for every 1,000 (meant to say 10,000 people)people it is 2.6 commanders. In AB we have three commanders, they are really only LT.s but the title gives them clout with other departments. Also we have a swelling population on a daily basis. I want to have Charter review of elected officials. Now, there are 5 seats one being Mayor with two seats and the Mayor up for election every 2 years. The latest change to the Charter was to have elected officials with residency requirement. Sounds good but is a smoking mirror,because they live there but are not elected by that district. Should go to 7 seats each district elected by their district only,then have two at large commissioners elected by everyone; also the Mayor. Every two years you have 2 district members,the mayor and one at large seat running for office. So there would be 4 people running. This protects the taxpayers of Atlantic Beach because it scares me that three of you can control the city. It is harder to get four to agree. Should definitely have district seats voted by only people in that district. Woods: First we were not the Commission that voted in districting, the commission that was voted in at the time was against the districting and tried to repeal it. The current commission has worked very hard to bring in citizens comments and input to the process. Daugherty: It was done by referendum; Charter changes are up to a citizen vote. Respectfully, I disagree because 90%of what we do is for the entire city. Currently I am working on improving ped paths which is for the whole city. I pay attention to the whole city when I am out and I bring all issues I see to the City Manager. We are redoing Rose Park and so I do work on things particular to my neighborhood as well as the whole city. Reeves: Citizens should have the right to have real district representation like other cities do. By having more seats it would open the door to more people who are also qualified to run. Right now you have to wait 8 years to be able to run. Page 4 of 11 Linda Spenser Almeida: I have lived here for 10 years and in the beginning I could go in town and get a seat anywhere and knew people there every time.Now it's hard to get a seat and I see strangers. Do we have the right number of officers? I don't know but it is true there are a lot more people in our city. I like having the police be so prompt and reliable. Would like to see them walking more. Wants police force to have proper facilities but would like to see current facilities improved, if it can be, or maybe a substation. But please use due diligence, have to have the public involved. The more eyes and minds the better,there is a lot to be considered and well thought out. Wants better facilities and wants there to be a lot of constructive input. Louis Keith: Commission's hands are tied on the police pension by state law. I'm a retired federal law officer. Gave example of how the pension is calculated; showed that in Florida, law enforcement gets 95%of salary at retirement, plus C.O.L.A.,plus social security. State officer makes almost 2 times the rate of a federal officer. Need to talk to the legislature to fix this basic problem. Who gets 90%- 100% of their salary when they retire? This needs to be fixed this is what is killing us with unfunded pension costs. The state dictates what we can and can't negotiate.Need to use common sense. Have 6,200 hundred households. They can't afford$9 million dollars (and growing) in unfunded liabilities. We need to get innovative; we have redundancy at the beach, officers, dispatch etc. Look at what services we can share. Borno: I'm not against pensions; people have a right to them. Pensions need to be dealt with in a fair and equitable manner. The legislature needs to give us relief from unfunded mandates. The Florida League of Cities wants the State to get the legislators' attention on this subject. The pension is like a 30 year mortgage that must be paid; every time you make a change you pay for the next 30 years and so we are paying for adjustments made when times were good. We are chipping away at them this year more than others. We are trying to get relief but have to work within the system. Penny Kamish: Have had 3 home invasions in 15 years. The police have always been there. The most recent being"Bob", who was apprehended at Seaplace where he went into another home. Long time officers are important. Because of our quirky roads, it is nice for them to be familiar with our community. Do we have the right amount?I think so because they are always there when I need them. Obviously,this affects our pension liability,the number of officers etc. In good faith, I don't think you can take away what you have given but can make changes going forward. With the federal money it is given for a period of time and then when the funding stops, do you stop the program or keep it up. Chief Classey took some heat for comparables (during the Police Building Committee study)but I think it was simply a case of not understanding the difference between the functions of those departments and our own. When we look at the EOC,when we need them it is during a storm, so it is not a good idea to stay at the beach. There are so many ways to be connected. We now have WEB Page 5 of 11 EOC. Yes have a conference room but don't put the equipment in there. The overhead and maintenance will eat you alive. The state radio system is available and then you won't have a conflict and will be able to communicate to all involved. We have so many facilities that would be at our disposal there is no need to build a designated facility with all of the overhead costs. Also agree with Almeida that the more eyes the better!!! Multiple eyes and multiple disciplines are best. Our facilities do need to be improved, I'm glad the City has been saving for this but don't want to overspend. Separate facilities for storage may not be as convenient but could be the right decision. Expansion, may be needed but it does not need to go out it could go up. There is limited space in Russell Park we don't have adequate parking. Also with the presence, Mayport Rd. seems to have the most problems. Beautification efforts should include community sweat equity. It doesn't matter if it is east or west it is the buy in for community support. Daugherty : Thank you for your comments. I question why people keep saying we need somewhere to be after a disaster. In my experience from disaster relief there are police departments from everywhere. FEMA comes in and takes over. It would be a while before we would be able to come in and take over. We have a mobile command center here in AB. This is kind of a red herring with the police building. We do not really need a command center. Woods: If something happens and the City is not completely leveled we need somewhere to be. But information is moving to the cloud and if we can get our IT upgraded we will have all this information and capability to run the city in the cloud and won't need the physical facilities immediately. Steve Kallao: Seems like we are driving off the police-building cliff. I sent some information about the existing building and FEMA regulations. Please let me know if you have any questions about it. For the meeting on Januaryl4th we should start with taking items off the table that just won't work and maybe back into a solution. I like Carolyn's suggestion to examine police procedure. It seems it is all boiling down to square footage and we should assume a$300 per square foot to start but you never know what you are going to run into during construction. Nancy Whittington: Thank you for the opportunity to speak. Thank you for not raising our property taxes. 2013 will be tough enough thanks to the feds. Main concern is how City finances are managed. We have a small tax base so your decisions make a big difference. We just want to make sure we are getting a good value for our dollar, whether it is the police building or beach cleaning. It seems that since we are still talking about the police building, the current process is not working for you. It is not at the top of the strategic plan, it is not in the budget and there has been a big public outcry to not build it. Let the processes work and maybe the police building should be considered later. There are a lot of smart people in the community. Engage with the citizens and get more input. Questions should be asking; Why do we have the most expensive government at the Page 6 of 11 beaches? $2,879 per person, does that make sense?Police $944 per citizen I know this is a hard way to look at it but communities everywhere are working in collaboratives we should consider this. Share resources and come up with better ideas. Find the middle grounds. St Augustine beach was able to cut their police budget in half. Does this Commission have the courage to take a closer look at the employees who answer directly to the Commission and have a clear plan for them,public reviews. Have heard good ideas about looking at the police building. Corporations have made changes with furniture and other things to improve the use of space, we should too. Again the true needs are the first step. Looking at all of the information, which took hours to get, there needs to be a better way to have information available. Please take a hard look at city finances and management of those finances. Come up with good solutions. John November: This is great. Some people think public input is bad but it is awesome. The more eyes on the project the better. We are stagnant as a city right now but things going well are improvements at Rose Park. It is the entry to the core of this part of our city. The citizens really want a water feature. Do it over time if you need but have the vision to make it happen. Improvements on the marsh have been awesome. The pier, kayak landing etc. need more improvements there, need public input. Marsh Master Plan calls for connecting Tide Views and Dutton Island we have a beautiful resource here and it is time to invest in it and have the vision to make this resource a source of pride for the City. Focus on planning first, if we can't get grants we need to commit to spending the money. Sunset Pier has made the area safer and so will more improvements. We need to acquire more property along the preserve as we can. This is first priority because if we don't acquire them for conservation they will be gone. The future Benet's landing beautiful piece of marsh land, make it a top initiative. We need to come together as a community. Marsh Fest will be every other year. I appreciate the staff, they have been amazingly supportive. Police station vision, I was born here, I love old AB the architecture,the police building looks good, if possible, incremental expansion would be good. There is room to expand up and out in the current location. I have been working with an architect on a plan. The coolest thing about it will be a porch on top that overlooks the park. Sally Clemens: I hate to follow John November. Wants to change the Charter to require more proof of citizenship from candidates for office. Also times we can take our garbage out is 6:00 in Charter(actually in the ordinance); it needs to be earlier. Pat Craft: Also born in AB was here during the war. About the Police Station if we need a Sally port and three holding cells we do not put something like that near our park where our children play. If we have that dangerous of criminal in this facility in this community, we do not put them by our children! We protect our children! Louis Keith: Just FYI - 97%arrested in Duval County are taken directly to Duval County jail. In St. John's county 100%taken directly to county jail. Page 7 of 11 Mark Tomaski: Thank you for holding these Town Hall meetings. I have never seen this level of participation. It is good. I do like the idea of looking at what we want in policing. Wish we had more of the COPS program; popular with citizens and the police. It works well that they have a connection with the community. Policing is the real issue not the building. Don't know how we got to a 14,000 s.f. Police Building plan. It is too large. Improving the station is necessary. Have seen the existing and it is a mess but that part is because of leadership. We need to take care of what we have first and then look at what we need. There is no support for a large building. Start with policing and taking care of what we have. There is support for a facility that provides a comfortable workspace. Also need a better entry with a quiet space to conduct your work, interview people. We need to put in some money and a sizeable amount but not$5m. I am a proponent of videotaping and increasing the access to information. It can be compared to a library and I wish our access to information was easier. This morning I was late because I was watching our City Manager being interviewed via video streaming in Port Orange. We used to be the leader of the three cities at the Beach and I'd like us to be that way again. Workshops don't have to be a pain. You get things done when you have them, you are thinking being creative, working together. Then you have your meetings and it is completely different. Should try the method Neptune Beach uses,one workshop a month, one voting meeting a month. Could have 7 commissioners, don't know how you would get them to agree but it could be good. Should consider having the 4 district representatives voted strictly from their district plus 2 at large plus the Mayor voted on at large. When you have three people in lock step over a period of time it is not necessarily the best for the city. Thank you for having the town meetings. Steve Fouraker: Really like the idea of video streaming. It is very important for our government to be accessible to our community and people can't make it to the meetings. Howell Park needs attention, it is being forgotten; it needs planting and cleaning to make it the natural place it is suppose to be. Years ago we had a drainage problem in the core city. The first engineer's plan would have leveled Howell Park and made it a reservoir with a clear view from Sherry Rd. to Seminole Rd. Johansson Park would have been leveled and we would not have Arts in The Park like we do. The Citizens rose up and demanded better even though the Commission had decided. That citizens committee led by Borno, did a very good job,but they worked through the ideas. After that we hired another group of engineers. They presented another overdesigned plan that was too expensive and would not work. Thank God for Mayor Shaughnessy who tenaciously led the fight against that plan. Then there was a new committee chosen and we had a consultant, Terri Whitehead, who facilitated the meetings and out of that we got the inverted crown that saved all the trees and has worked fine. Cost less, works fine. No curb and gutter. This brings me to the police building. We had one committee,they worked fine. I never thought they were to come up with the one design. I thought they were going to come up with options. Somehow the idea came up that their plan would be it and feelings got hurt. They had a limited scope to look at and were not necessarily given good information. So Page 8 of 11 when I look at the process and when I hear someone say we just have to get it done,that is not the way to go. Today we have heard a good beginning to look at what we really need. We don't need to wait for the next Mayor, you are capable people. Just got to get it done is a prescription for making a big mistake. Get experts from around the State and maybe even a new committee. I hope our meetings, I know and care for all of you, let's make these meetings different and make sure staff is acting as staff and working for you to come up with a good solution in a civilized manner. Michael Hoffmann: I have been in favor for many years of televising the meetings; live streaming is a good alternative. These town meetings have been great, learn something every time. I know it is a lot of effort and I really appreciate it. The live streaming would be good. Website needs better phone numbers for each department. Police Station was advertised as the primary concern and I agree that storage is an issue. We do need holding cells. I'm concerned too many of our youth are being hauled downtown for minor things. The guy that breaks into your house, yes, take them but we need an in between step for our youth so they are not over penalized,they don't need to be criminalized. Mr. Hatfield did a great job with the COPS program and I think we need to keep it. I'd like to see the Police Station on Mayport Rd. and the substation here. Leave the fire station here. I'm not in favor of Taj Mahal but I'm in favor of the basics as they have been outlined; evidence storage and protection, holding cells and sufficient working space. Haven't heard anything about the drainage ditch in the Donner area. Last I heard the City Manager was supposed to look into how Neptune Beach got DOT to pay for theirs and we can't. It is a long overdue problem and I would like to see movement on that. I am a long-time proponent of representative government. I think the citizens committee that resulted in the referendum on representative districts shows that the citizens have a lot of collective knowledge and good judgment. I think the 4 districts should have a direct election so they are not diluted by votes outside of the district. And that's why I would oppose the extra two at large representatives. Because then we would basically be back right where we were. Penny Camish: Thanks to all of you, it has been interesting to watch over the years. I look at all of you and may not always agree but feel you are all doing your research. I can appreciate that you take the time to research and make the best decision for the community. Not to take away from Mr. Hanson, but it seems after a certain time staff may be able to move things in the direction they want. I wish him well in his interviews in Port Orange. Not that he is a bad guy but he has maybe gotten used to getting his way. It may be good to get a fresh start. We do have a very talented community. Mitch Reeves: About the Police Station I think everyone agrees we need to do something. There is a Murray gas station right in front of our pump station on Mayport Rd. Can staff contact them and maybe they would donate and yes we would have to clean it up but they Page 9 of 11 might donate to get out of the liability. Discussion ensued as to where exactly the Hess Gas station is, if it is in City limits or not. Greg Selby: Need to get those medians out of the middle of Mayport Rd. so the police and the fire can get around. Melody Bishop: I am the architect that designed the existing police and fire station. At the time they wanted to save money, be very efficient with the design, existing building that was there. It is exciting to hear this much enthusiasm in the community and to hear all the ideas. Buildings are like your kids, so I have been following this debate for a while. I could quickly look at it and determine if you can go up two floors. The suggestion to add incrementally could be a good idea. The design criteria has changed sense the original design. Policing is more community friendly than it might have been then. I would be happy to volunteer to look at it with you. Beckenbach: Steve Kallao gave us information with criteria and regulations from FEMA, that limit our options. Lance Wolfson was showing options for incremental design, as far as the wind loads etc. We could go up, but the cost would be too high. It would require tearing down the whole thing. I am interested in talking to you about options. We do have the plans for the building. Bishop: My husband and I are involved in the community and would like to help. Atlantic Beach is our treasure here in NE Florida. Clyde Bradley: Mayport Rd is not the dividing line. Sailfish Drive is. We are not treated the same as other parts of the City. Example, Saratoga Circle had a speeding problem. I came to the City Commission and the police department twice. It was so bad the lady on the curve had to put cones out to protect her kids. A lot of people don't like to complain so I called the police department. A police officer came out to investigate and only talked to that one person. The police said go out and knock on the doors. I said it was the police's job not mine. There was one person who was the problem, who drove a white trans am, who usually did it when they leave in the morning.Not hard to figure out or do something about. I'd love to see direct representation. Daugherty: There is a small neighborhood with speed humps, how do you feel about that. Borno: The issue is the speeder; you don't redesign the whole neighborhood for one speeder. Bradley: In our street the speed limit is 25 but in all the other neighborhoods it is 20. Have called police and Mike Borno but nothing so far. If that happened over here they would get results. I never called Woods because I didn't want to put anymore burden on Page 10 of 11 her shoulders with all the grief she has gotten from other Commissioners and Mayors over time. We need a lot of things in this town before we get a water park. Need to concentrate on sidewalks, safety items. I came up with the idea for sidewalks when Beaver was here. He made it happen his last year. Daugherty: We have made sidewalks a priority and dedicated more funds. Bradley: Good because we need sidewalks on both sides of Seminole Rd. for the kids going to school. Daugherty: Next Agenda I have an item to create a survey for the citizens on line. Want to make sure staff does not create the survey. Want to know what you think we should ask. We need to do something broader where we can have 2-3,000 responses. Borno: This should never be an opportunity to beat up on staff. They have their responsibilities and we have our own. Linda Almeida: People don't seem to be aware of all the services on our website. They can register a complaint or a compliment and so many other things. Need the positive question on the survey; What service person helped you and how? Karen Kempf: Recreation page also has their phone number. Mayor Borno adjourned the meeting at 12:23 p.m. didLe, t Mike Borno Mayor Carolyn ' •ds Commissioner Page 11 of 11