10-21-13 Police Bldg Workshop MINUTES OF THE WORKSHOP OF ATLANTIC BEACH CITY COMMISSION
HELD IN THE COMMISSION CHAMBER ON OCTOBER 21,2013
City Commission Members present:
Mike Borno, Mayor
Maria Mark, Mayor Pro Tern
Mark Beckenbach, Commissioner
Jonathan Daugherty, Commissioner
Carolyn Woods, Commissioner
Staff present:
Jim Hanson, City Manager
Michael Classey, Chief of Police
Nancy Bailey, Recording Secretary
Also present:
Jimmy Hill, Commissioner-elect
The meeting, which was held for the purpose of discussing the police building project was called
to order at 6:32 p.m. by Mayor Borno. He welcomed Commissioner-elect Jimmy Hill. He stated
they all had the agenda as well as a handout from Steve Lindorff(which is attached and made
part of this Official Record as Attachment A). He asked that Chief Classey give a summary
of the history of the planning for the police building and stated they will have public input before
they go into the Commission discussions.
Chief Mike Classey gave a slide presentation (which is attached and made part of this Official
Record as Attachment B) summarizing the highlights of the history of the planning for the
police building. He answered questions from the Commission.
Mayor Borno explained the process for public comments and opened the Courtesy of the Floor to
Visitors.
Lou Keith, 1845 Tierra Verde Drive, stated he liked what Chief Classey said. We had a
building with about half staff at 4,000 s.f. when this whole thing started. He stated he is a big
believer in comparative analysis. He stated he previously sent them a comparison of the first
five police departments starting in Fernandina Beach to St. Augustine stating the average square
footage of these five facilities per employee is approximately 220 s.f. He stated if you multiply
that by how many employees our police department has today and it comes up to about 9,000 s.f.
which seems like a pretty doable number. He stated as a member of the Police Committee he
had no confidence in any of the figures provided by that architectural firm. He stated the newly
elected/reelected Commission made a promise to this community not to borrow money. He
stated they could do very well by adding a storage facility on City-owned property and
remodeling the existing building and putting on additions and operating very efficiently. He
stated space can be saved by simple scheduling.
Steve Kallao, 552 Dutton Island, stated the citizens don't want to infringe in the park and don't
want to spend $5,000,000 so they would have to say what are their other considerations, which
would be moving the police building somewhere else or remodeling the existing building. He
stated he reviewed the flood plain situation with Mike Griffin and, as you know, the existing
building was in the 100 year flood plain but the new flood plain documents came out June 3 and
it is now in the 500 year flood plain. He stated this means, in terms of construction, the costs
Minutes—City Commission Workshop October 21,2013
Page 2
would go down considerably because they don't have to adhere to FEMA's construction rules
and don't have to raise the level of the floor plan. He stated if they did decide to remodel that
building it would mean a lot in terms of construction costs because before it was prohibitive but
now that they don't have to adhere to those, it would be a viable alternative to add additions and
remodel the existing building, if that's what they decide to do.
Jack Varney, 2257 Ocean Forest Dr. W., stated the decision has to be made by the
Commission and if they think somebody else can make it for them they are just wasting our time
and our money. It is your job, you do it and you face the music; it's a contentious issue. You
need to trust the people who work for you, they will bring you the information you need and if
they don't you can deal with them because they are your employees. Take advantage of the
people you have there; don't believe anything you see that comes from anyone else outside
without checking it out and having it documented in writing and checked out by somebody who
knows, because there are too many numbers out there that are phony. He stated a suggestion to
the Commission is to be thorough, do it right, do it right the first time so you don't have to do it
again. You are going to take heat, take the heat and move on.
No one else from the audience spoke so Mayor Borno closed the Courtesy of the Floor to
Visitors.
Mayor Borno stated they keep hearing 14,000 s.f. and $5 million. He stated that is history and is
not where we are at. He stated we are here to make the best viable decision and figure out what
we need. He stated we are not here to design the police department, etc., we are here to establish
what they are willing to consider and that will govern what they are going to look at and how
much they will put into it. He stated, related to the comment about borrowing money, they have
accumulated up to $2.7 million currently from half cent sales tax to do whatever and they don't
have to look for another source of funds; they can always look for half cent sales tax. He stated
it has to be worked out in how much they want to restrict the usage of that for other projects.
Mayor Borno asked the City Manager if the information on the 500 year flood plain was correct.
Mr. Hanson stated that was not his understanding. He stated he believes they need to get an
architect who is familiar with the FEMA rules to look at it if they want to pursue this building.
He stated they need to look at what is proposed and give them an educated written
recommendation as to what it would cost to meet the regulations. Discussion ensued regarding
the 100 year and 500 year flood plain.
Commissioner-elect Jimmy Hill stated, from listening to the citizens, a new police building is not
the answer and they should consider remodeling this building as a compromise. He stated the
officers are living in a pig sty and it has to be addressed immediately. He stated they have to
give these officers a better work environment as soon as we can. He stated he believes the
Animal Control could function out of any building the City owns just as well, which would free
up some space; unless there is some violent aspect that he is not aware of that we are protecting
with the law enforcement, which may be the case. He stated he got a clear message that the
citizens don't want a new building and he is very much for a remodel of this facility. He stated
the new information on the flood plain is certainly worth looking at. He stated it makes it much
more attractive than it was knowing that we might put money into something that is really
Minutes—City Commission Workshop October 21, 2013
Page 3
expensive to upgrade. He stated if there was a chance that we don't have to spend that additional
money to raise the elevation, he understands it.
Mayor Borno passed the Chair to Commissioner Woods, stating this is going to be a decision
made underneath her as Mayor. He asked if she would take the Chair, hold the Commission
discussion and carry on with that part of it, he would appreciate it. Commissioner Woods
thanked the Mayor. She stated she would like to ask everyone to state yes or no as to whether
they should remodel, build a new building or look for a new place.
Mayor Borno stated he believes the best approach would be to get an architect to evaluate that
building to see if anything can be done to it to make it serviceable to support the operations of
this department within the budget.
Commissioner Mark stated she believes they should look at a new site and use this money for
new construction rather than taking a risk that we are putting good money after bad. She stated it
is not the expansion part, except that it will take out some trees and we will have some parking
issues, but her main concern is the remodeling. She stated it would make better sense to her to
concentrate on finding a proper site in the Mayport area on Levy Road. She stated if they do
their due diligence and look at a site that would work and know the cost for new construction
then they would know almost to the penny what they are going to spend. She stated this building
could be rehabbed to be used as a community center. She stated the police station would be in an
area where is it probably needed the most.
Commissioner Daugherty stated, as stewards of resources and representatives of the citizens,
they need to find something that is paletteable and meets the needs of the police department. He
stated his preference is to renovate and expand the existing building but he is also open to
looking at a Levy Road location.
Commissioner Beckenbach stated, at a minimum, he would look at refurbishing this building
with an option to expand the building. He stated he does not see using anymore than we already
have saved. He stated there is a lot they can do with that amount of money.
Slides were shown of the expanded site.
Mayor Borno stated related to the report that Steve Lindorff submitted, Chief Classey was asked
if he had seen it and was it accurate and he stated it was not totally accurate.
Commissioner-elect Hill asked if the funds that were saved for this project were not spent on this
project where would they go, or were they borrowed. Mr. Hanson stated none of them were
borrowed. He stated they would have the same restrictions as when they came in. He stated he
believes all of the funds came from half cent sales tax funds. They would be limited to the same
improvements that Better Jacksonville Half Cent Sales Tax Funds are which are capital
improvement projects, mostly bricks and mortar, but you could do street projects or sidewalks.
Commissioner-elect Hill stated the location of that building anchors this park because there is the
strong perception that there is a strong police presence which is one of the reasons moving it is a
scary thing. He stated the bones are good but the AC unit was not replaced on the fire side and
will need to be done at some point. He stated he does not want to move it, but does want to
Minutes—City Commission Workshop October 21,2013
Page 4
modify it to fit today's standards. He stated he believes they can do a better job of utilizing even
what is there. He stated they can get an architect and tell them what we need it to do and then
they might get the right answer. Discussion ensued regarding the location.
Commissioner Woods stated it all comes back to how the department is run and where we focus
our resources, stating she believes we need more COPS officers. Discussion ensued.
Commissioner Mark stated it had been suggested to her that they look for another place to put
the fire station and have the City of Jacksonville help them do some kind of relocation with that,
possibly even in Neptune Beach. Mr. Hanson stated that suggestion was made to Neptune Beach
officials and was very quickly shut down.
Commissioner Woods stated she wants to get more officers into different parts of the
community, and get as minimal a building as they can come up with so they can be conservative
with their resources. She stated most people like it here and she believes it can be remodeled.
Discussion ensued regarding Animal Control.
Commissioner-elect Hill asked what is the difference between COPS officers and regular
officers. Chief Classey explained the difference. Discussion ensued.
Commissioner Woods recapped that five Commissioners are willing to renovate with expansion
staying within budget of the money that has been set aside. Commissioner-elect Hill asked if a
reasonable renovation can take place in two stages so they can function out of the building or
should they immediately make plans for a period of time to house them. Chief Classey stated he
believes they would need to plan on moving offsite. Commissioner Woods stated they could
have the architectural team look at that. Mr. Hanson stated it may be possible to put temporary
space, such as the portables used at the schools, located in the parking lot. Commissioner Mark
stated they need to also think about total disruption to community, at the five-way, the park, etc.
due to the construction. Chief Classey stated he shares some of Commissioner Mark's concerns
about this facility but he doesn't believe the Commission can move on to another site until it
exhausts the abilities of the current site. He stated what can be done on that site and what the
cost will be are two big factors. Commissioner Mark stated it is going to cost us money to figure
out what can be done and what that cost is going to be, so of that $2.7 million be prepared to
spend money to have an architectural design company to do that whole analysis. She stated they
will be spending money on something that, in her mind, could still be a major question mark as
to whether that is something we want to do. Commissioner-elect Hill stated the good thing is
that the structure of that building is a very simple structure, it is not a complex building. He
stated it is a 2x4 framed building with sheetrock walls; it is very easy to make major adjustments.
He stated structurally it is a truss roof that will withstand whatever interior wall changes that
need to be made, fairly simply. He stated it is pretty feasible to do most anything and it
definitely needs to be done. He stated his concern is getting these officers into a working
environment quickly.
Minutes—City Commission Workshop October 21,2013
Page 5
Commissioner Woods stated she will put this on the agenda in the very near future to develop an
RFP to have an architectural firm look at our site and tell us where to go. Commissioner
Daugherty suggested it might be very symbolic for this Commission to put this on next agenda.
Discussion ensued.
Mayor Borno stated Winston Churchill was addressing Parliament during World War II when
they asked him, in his wisdom, to give some words of advice. He stated Churchill got up and
said, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never give up, then he sat down.
Mayor Bomo stated keep that in mind.
Commissioner Woods reiterated they will have this on the agenda and asked the Commission to
send in what they believe the parameters should be, or decide whether they would like another
workshop to discuss. Further discussion ensued. Mr. Hanson stated he and Chief Classey should
be involved in these discussions. Commissioner Woods clarified that at the workshop on
October 28 they will bring the items they would like to develop in an RFP and on the November
12 they will vote on developing an RFP. Mr. Hanson stated the Commissioners should come to
the meeting on October 28 with their parameters for the RFP so they can start putting those
together. Commissioner Mark stated after the vote on November 12 they can have a workshop
to actually do the RFP.
Mr. Hanson explained the meetings on November 12 are to complete old business with the
current Commission, then they will adjourn the current Commission, swear in the newly elected
officials and reconvene with the new Commission. Commissioner Woods clarified that the issue
of the RFP will be on the portion of the meeting with the new Commission.
Commissioner Woods reopened the floor to visitors.
Don Ford, stated Fleet and Associates already did a needs assessment and the building hasn't
changed since then.
Jack Varney, stated this isn't going to be as easy as they think it should because there are some
other finer requirements they will have to build into that RFP, i.e. laboratory for fingerprinting,
sally ports and holding cells and cost justification analysis to determine what they are going to
have or not have, etc. He suggested they go back to the requirements that were set forth
previously, analyze the cost benefits of them, prioritize them and then build what they need into
that RFP from that list.
Mark Tomaski, 448 Snapping Turtle Court West, asked why the video was not on tonight,
stating he received several calls and texts asking why it wasn't on because they thought this was
a very important topic. Mr. Hanson replied that we have a limited budget and a number of times
Minutes—City Commission Workshop October 21,2013
Page 6
we can put meetings on. He stated we don't have the budget to televise every meeting that goes
on and if the Commission wants to expand the budget they can do that.
Commissioner Mark stated if they start getting into the details of what is going into the building
then they are going to get into this whole other discussion about the police and the procedures,
etc. Commissioner Woods stated she believes they are staying within the parameters, this is the
site and this is our budget and then they will talk to the Chief about prioritizing the needs and
space on those parameters. Further discussion ensued.
Commissioner Woods stated she wants to include green building codes and discuss how far
down that road they want to go. Discussion ensued.
Commissioner Woods turned the meeting back over to Mayor Borno.
There being no further discussion by the City Commission, Mayor Borno declared the meeting
adjourned at 7:55 p.m.
Nancy E. B iley 2 Carolyn V•ds
Recording Secretary Mayor
ATTACHMENT A
THE TRUTH ABOUT THE POLICE FACILITY COMMITTEE'S WORK
• The committee NEVER entertained a$5.2 million facility. It started with the"value engineered"$4.8
million version of the ADG consulting firm's plan.And the$4.8 million version was quickly rejected
by the committee as over-built and too expensive.
o SIDE NOTE:ADG got the size of the various components right.They are recognized experts and
have over 170 public safety clients throughout the southeast U.S., including working with the
Haskell Company on design and construction of the Jax Beach police building.The REAL ISSUE is
which of the various components are needed v.those that are simply nice to have.
• The Police Chief gave the committee as list of the Necessary v.the Nice components which
committee members then used to derive the"right"size for a new facility.
NECESSARY NICE ELIMINATED
Administration
Chief's Office-217sf Chief's Conference Room-180sf Waiting Vestibule-80sf
Chief's Administrative Assistant Mini-Break Room-20sf Storage-40sf
Space-224sf
Restroom-64sf
Support Services Commander's
Office-160sf
Records Unit
Records Work Area-284sf Public Access Counter-60sf
Records Storage-182sf Officer Access Window-24sf
Records Supply Storage-55sf Copier/Work/Supply Area-140sf
Juvenile File Storage-74sf Supply Receiving Area-40sf
Animal Control
Office Area-72sf
Secured Storage-24sf
File Storage-24sf
Investigations Division
Interview/Safe Room-144sf CSU Detective's Work Area-128sf
General Detective's Work Area-
128sf
Secured Storage-80sf
Sergeant's Office-80sf
Equipment Storage-40sf
Copy/Work/Supply Storage-140sf
Property&Evidence
Evidence Custodian Work Area- Officer Drop-Off Area-120sf
126sf
Bulk Evidence Storage-300sf Evidence Retrieval Area-60sf
Valuables Vault-25sf Wash-Up Area-20sf
Narcotics Vault-55sf
Weapons Vault-53sf
Evidence Processing Lab/Decom-
66sf
Misc. Evidence Storage-300sf
NECESSARY NICE I ELIMINATED
Patrol Division
Patrol Hub-144sf EOC/Tactical/Training Room-140sf Secured Equipment Storage-40sf
Sergeant's Open Work Area-252sf File Storage-40sf
Briefing/Muster Room-266sf COPS Bike Storage-40sf
Commander's Offices-266sf
Communications
Call Taker/Dispatch Work Stations- Public Access Window-24sf
209sf
Supervisor's Office-60sf Officer's Access Window-24sf
Secured Equipment Room-117sf Fire Suppression Equipment Room-
60sf
Uni-Sex Restroom-60sf Misc.Storage-40sf
Locker/Break Area-39sf
Facility Functional Areas
Public Lobby-331sf Central Breakroom-160sf Quartermaster Storage-160sf
Public Restrooms-250sf Armory-120sf Second Floor Vestibule-120sf
Holding Cells-216sf Ammunition Storage-60sf Hazmat/Drug/Blood Drying Room-
80sf
Booking Desk-94sf Tactical Equipment Storage-140sf
Secured Interview Room-66sf
Sallyport-658sf
Facility Services
Janitor's Closets-21sf Staff Restrooms-448sf Electrical Room-120sf
Mechanical Rooms-138sf Staff Locker Rooms-320sf Mobile Command Vehicle Storage-
640sf
Data Cable Closet-20sf Server/IT Room-100sf
Emergency Generator Enclosure- Data Cabling Closet-20sf
156sf
Misc.Storage-200sf
Summary Data
TOTAL IN ADG PLAN =13,114 sf
TOTAL IN COMMITTEE'S"COST FEASIBLE" PLAN =5,468 sf plus 1,880 sf for hallways,etc. =7,348 sf
• Allowing for a bit of building design "wiggle room",the Committee ultimately agreed to recommend
a new building housing the"Necessary"components listed above which would not exceed 9,000 sf.
o SIDE NOTE:Some of the components in the category involve police operational policy choices
that are within the province of the City Commission in concert with its staff.These include the
sally port and holding cells.These were left in the Committee proposal by majority vote.
• With the help of a volunteer with architectural training, a sketch floor plan was developed that had
a total footprint of 65'x 136',or 8,840 sf.,and could be accommodated (but take up much area) in
the same location as the ADG plan.
• The components that were labeled "Nice"could be accommodated by remodeling the existing
police building which would not necessarily have to be done immediately, but accomplished over
time as funds were available.The committee recommended that up to 4,999 sf be set as the limit to
avoid any potential issues with "substantially improving" an existing structure.
• The committee recognized that it did not possess the expertise to provide a definitive cost estimate,
but, believing that the charge to committee mandated one,went through an exercise of applying a
number of scenarios to derive some cost data.This resulted in the following information being
added to the final report:
Based on ADG Data Based on CC&A Committee Adjustment
Estimator's Data Using Mid-Range Cost
New Building $2,295,000 $2,016,000 $2,133,000
[$255/sf] [$224/sf] [$237/sf]
Remodeled Space $600,000 $600,000 $1,184,762
[$120/sf] ($120/sf] ($237/sf]
Site Work $350,000 $350,000 $350,000
Furnishings/Equipment $250,000 $250,000 $250,000
A/E Fees $280,000 $257,280 $313,421
Estimated Cost $3,775,000 $3,473,280 $4,231,183
• The bottom line is that NO ONE can really say what the building will cost because the final building
program has not been decided nor has a realistic budget been set.That is why the committee
strongly recommended that the Commission retain the services of a Design-Build construction firm
to work with the Commission and staff on a two-phased process with the first being an exploratory
step that would lead to finalizing a program for the construction of the new facility and establishing
a maximum guaranteed price (a "budget")followed by actually solving the problem by building the
project.
Steve Lindorff, Member
Police Facility Citizen's Committee
2092 Vela Norte Circle
Atlantic Beach, FL 32233
Atlantic Beach Police
Building
October 21 , 2013
f Y
r � Z
■Building Astor v Sum
1 ;9$ 7 -constructed approximately 4 , 000 s ft
q
{
=x s ° ' Total staff -.04,,,,,,....ssthan %2 of current staff
Prior to construction , staff redicted buildin would be
p g
too small for the police_.needss
■ 1993 -first architectural plans for expansion
introduced , however did not move forward
■ 1999 -fire contract signed and police took over
approximately 2 , 000 additional sq ft that was
previously allocated to fire operations
x
t.,:.,4,.‘, 5' „.„ --- ,-",• ,„ - __ 1/2- -
building History continued
'‘• ► 2004 -Commission budgeted $ 30, 000 for design
��'" of remodeling and expansion to the police
��
departmeñt ' _
� ' June, 2005 -Fleet & Assoc provided an expansion
plan of 2 , 841 sq ft at an approx. cost of
$ 965 , 734 .
■ October, 2005 -Commission believed expansion
was inadequate , directed staff to seek
architectural firm that specializes in public safety
buildings
building History continued
■ 2006 -Public Safety Architect reviewed Fleet &
Assoc . proposal and reported that proposed
expansion was insufficient to meet the needs
of the Po lice Department
■ January 2007 -Commission tours of other
police department buildings
■ 2007 -Several sight evaluations for new
police department conducted
Building History continued
June 2008 -Spatial needs assessment
completed and determined 14 , 000 sq ft was
the need
■ September 2008 -Commission approved
annual budget, including cost for police
building design
■ November 2009 -Commission authorized the
design of a new law enforcement facility
building History continued
■ September 2010 -Commission approved design
option for new building
■ August 2011 - 100% design plans completed by
architect, final decision deferred until new
commission is seated
■ January 2012 -Commission decided not to
proceed with the police building as designed .
■ Feb - May 2012 -Commission appointed citizen
committee on police building .
Building committee recommended construction of a new
9,000 sq ft building and renovation of existing 5 ,000 sq
ft building
Building History continued
June 201 2 -Commission decided to not pursue citizen building committee
recommendation
■ October 2013 -Staff awaiting direction from
city commission as to how and when to
proceed