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Agenda Item 1BMINUTES OF SPECIAL CALLED MEETING OF ATLANTIC BEACH CITY COMMISSION HELD ON NOVEMBER 25, 2013 PRESENT: Mayor Carolyn Woods ALSO: ABSENT: Mayor Pro Tern Maria Mark Commissioner Mark Beckenbach Commissioner Jimmy Hill Jim Hanson, City Manager Donna Bartle, City Clerk Nancy Bailey, Recording Secretary Commissioner Jonathan Daugherty The Mayor called the meeting to order at 6:31 p.m. in the Commission Chamber. She explained the procedures for the Special Called and Workshop meetings. 1. Comtesy of the Floor to Visitors Mayor Woods opened the Courtesy of the Floor to Visitors. She welcomed the audience and explained the process for public comments. After polling the audience, she stated the speakers would be limited to 3 minutes. She recognized former Mayor of Jacksonville John Delaney, former Mayors of Atlantic Beach Don Wolfson, Lyman Fletcher and Bob Persons and former Commissioner Paul Parsons, who were in the audience. Teresa Flores, 233 Belvedere St., addressed the proposed crosswalk at David St. and Seminole stating they would like an evaluation done for that intersection again or an explanation for why they didn't get one and the other two intersections did. Linda Almeida, 282 Magnolia St., expressed her concerns about the proposal to allow citizens to run their leaf blower at 7:00 a.m. but not allow lawn businesses doing the same thing to start before 9:00 a.m. She stated this needs to be considered more. She stated she is all for quiet, but is also all for business. The following speakers spoke in support of the Human Rights Ordinance: John Delaney, 110 Bowles St., Neptune Beach Julie Durden, 4041 Eunice Rd., Jacksonville Beach Christopher Martin, 44 Dewees Avenue Mallory Garner-Wells, 737 N.W. 24th Avenue, Gainesville, Public Policy Director for Equality Florida (distributed pamphlets to the Commission) Nadine McDade, 54 East Coast Drive Linda Fisher, 637 Lower 8th AvenueS., Jacksonville Beach Lyn Lazarus, 540 Hopkins St., Neptune Beach Jimmy Midyette, 5683 Solomon Rd., Jacksonville Tom Minette, 1206 N. Laura St., Jacksonville Michael Farmer, 1021 Garden Plaza, Statewide Field Director for Equality Florida Raoul Sanchez, 1445 Seminole Road Collier Summers, 237 Magnolia Street Monica Osborn, 1470 Marshview Ct. Karen Summers, 237 Magnolia Street James Eddy, 222 Lawhon Ave, Jacksonville Jessica Osborn, Statewide Outreach Coordinator for Equality Florida Peyton Hopkins, 95713th AvenueS., Jacksonville Beach Sue Smith, 1620 Sunnyside Avenue, Jacksonville Kristine Matson, 540 Hopkins, Neptune Beach Katherine Segura, 5978 Powers Avenue, Jacksonville Julie Malmstrom, 2042 2"d St. S., Jacksonville Beach Marcelle Bessman, Jacksonville Richard Salkin, 336 Sunrise Circle, Neptune Beach Michael Sheklin, 1985 Brista de Mar Circle Dale Clifford, 1212 Linkside Drive Chevara Orrin, 2069 N. Market St., Jacksonville Cheryl Taylor, 1319 Donald St., Jacksonville Mark Hill, 1726 Selva Marina Drive Debran Harmon, 611 Selva Lakes Circle Marina Hedgini, 721 Neptune Lane, Neptune Beach Judy Sheklin, 1985 Brista de Mar Circle Keri Kidder, St. Johns Ave., Jacksonville Steve Osborn, 1470 Marshview Ct. Mehmet Hasve, 7701 Baymeadows Circle W. James Poindexter, 2565 Pine Ridge Rd. James West, 1445 Seminole Road Theresa Bugler, 597 Aquatic Drive John Louis Meeks, Jr., 5350 Arlington Expressway #4308, Jacksonville Alex Bolles, 986 Stocks St. Blu Brock, 605 2"d Avenue N. Jacksonville Beach Mandy Bouton, 213B Cherry St., Neptune Beach Ann Bolles, 986 Stocks St. Yvette Hyater-Adams, 312 4th St. Dan Merkan, 3159 College St., Jacksonville, with Jacksonville Coalition of Equality Haley West, 1445 Seminole Rd. Betsy Dobbins, 2218 Cypress Landing Dr. Jonathan Griffm, 1445 Seminole Rd. Joe Barton, 1854 San Marco Blvd, Jacksonville Michelle Knight, 1494 Linkside Drive Merrill Sutton, 2218 Cypress Landing Drive Mark Tomaski, 448 Snapping Turtle Ct. West Katherine Daye, 475 Whiting Lane Ann Simpson, 420 Snapping Turtle Ct. East Diana Haramboure, 420 Snapping Turtle Ct. East Matt Shafer, 1464 Seminole Rd. Donald Wolfson, 1725 Beach Avenue Wells Todd, 1761 Sea Oats Drive -2- Marla Buchanan, 1771 Sea Oats Drive Ira Richardson, 312 19th St. The following speakers spoke against the Human Rights Ordinance: Donald Peters, 1902 N. Sherry Drive Raymond Johnson, 3036 Stratton Lane, Biblical Concepts Ministries, (distributed a packet of information to the Commission). Kerry Varkonda, 1865 Live Oak Lane Commissioner Mark thanked everyone for coming out and thanked Judy Sheklin for working with the Commission to educate them. She stated she has no doubt that this is something we need and if it is the consensus of the Commission to move forward they will be working hard. She stated we need to be the progressive City that moves this forward. Sally Clemens, 1638 Park Terrace West., addressed the Commission regarding three items: the Human Rights Ordinance, suggesting discrimination should be defined in a citizen-friendly verbiage and loopholes must be examined and eliminated, if necessary; Item 1 OD -to prohibit commercial construction within a residential community on Sunday, stating we are not a gated community and Sunday means a day off from work and church to her, but this is not the way of life for everybody and asked if this is discrimination; Item lOE-to prevent commercial lawn service companies from working before 9:00a.m. and after 7:00p.m. on Saturday and Sunday, stating consideration should be given for the benefit of the hard working wage earners during the hot days of summer, plus what is the right of the homeowner who wants the lawn service. Carolyn Ettlinger, 1230 Ocean Blvd., spoke against the proposed resolutions to replace Mr. Hanson and Mr. Jensen. She stated she has worked directly with Mr. Hanson and many of the staff. She stated the City is well managed. She stated this resolution troubles her because it seems to be out of the blue and rather subjective and maybe even personal. She urged the Commission to vote against this and then to take a positive action to create a very clear, fair and respectful manner in which to evaluate Mr. Hanson and Mr. Jensen and the rest of the employees. Mayor Woods recessed the meeting at 7:56p.m. to allow people to leave; she called the meeting to order at 7:59p.m. She then resumed the Courtesy of the Floor to Visitors. Marla Buchanan, 1771 Sea Oats Drive, stated she is disappointed and is against the resolutions to immediately terminate our City Manager and City Attorney. She stated the manner this has gone about is inappropriate and appears to be something more than an agenda for the benefit of our City. She stated she is never opposed to thoughtful discussion and looking at what we are doing as a City, reviewing things to see if we can do things better but she believes the manner in which this has been put together is not motivated by that. She asked that it be voted against. She stated it is disappointing this is the first thing our City is addressing when we have so many other issues before us. She stated the fact that we were not going to be a divisive City and this was about bringing everybody together with a new City Commission, it is disappointing that we are here again, clearly a divided community. She stated she hopes these resolutions will be withdrawn and more thought will be given to this issue. John Morello, 2295 Oceanside Court, stated he was in favor of the resolutions. Lynette Dinneen, 110 8th St., stated she is opposed to the firing of the City Attorney and City -3- Manager. She keeps hearing that everybody wants this, yet no one has given the citizens of Atlantic Beach a reason; all you say is everybody wants it. She stated Commissioner Hill is her representative and she wants to go on records that she doesn't want it and she has not spoken to anybody who wants this. She stated if someone can give us a reason, but you go on television and say I'm not giving a reason. She stated that doesn't seem acceptable; that's tragic. Susanne Barker, 1938 Beachside Court, addressed the resolutions for terminating the employment of the City Manager and the City Attorney. She stated, not to be political, she is in favor of it. She stated when we look at our City, we see that some of the biggest money is going to pay for our City Manager and we are a small City and there are not any rocket science things going on in our fair City. She stated there is not a lot going on where we need to be having a City Manager being paid over $lOOK. She stated she believes, with benefits, it is around $183K. She stated she believes that is a mighty fancy salary for our small town and believes it needs to be looked at. She stated the mean for a city manager in the United States is $80K, not $183K. She stated also there is nothing in the contract for a review of performance and that needs to be in any contract they have with an employee. She further stated although we need a City Attorney, then again we are paying $16,000 for just the health benefits for him and his family and the retainer is $35,000 for coming to the meetings and then when you add on to that the hourly rate for representing the City, you are reaching up to around $116K annually that the City Attorney is receiving from the citizens of Atlantic Beach. She stated she would rather have them spend money in a different way. She stated we don't need that lavish police station that was talked about but we do need crosswalks, new safety things, more playgrounds and things for the community. Richard Devane, 4217 Fleet Landing Blvd. finds it incongruous that this workshop has two issues before it which are of opposite objectives. He stated one is to consider an ordinance to ban discrimination against any person and the other is to discriminate against the City Manager. He stated should the Commission later pass this anti-discrimination ordinance it would be in violation of its own ordinance should it frre the City Manager for no tangible reason. He stated some have said the new Mayor has the right to choose the City Manager to move her agenda forward but this is not the form of City government we have in Atlantic Beach. He stated the Mayor has a title, but no more power or authority than any of the other Commissioners. He stated she is one of five equals in setting the policies and direction of the City. He stated the City Manager is responsible for carrying out the policies of the City Commission and the management of the staff and employees to that end. He stated he does not know of any policies set forth by the City Commission which Jim Hanson has not carried out ably and in the most efficient manner during his tenure. He stated he has known Jim Hanson over ten years. He stated when he was a newcomer to this job the Commission voted him an annual bonus, which he declined. When I asked him why, he said there was no money, money was short and the rest of the staff did not get any bonuses that year and therefore he declined his because he could not be an effective leader if he did that. He stated that is the kind of guy Jim Hanson is, a leader of the staff. He stated he believes they have seen it in the results of our City to date. He stated they can hire an expensive search fum, bring in many candidates and can interview finalists and take six months to drag this process out, but they cannot find a better City Manager than the one we already have. He stated he is experienced, professional, honest, hard working and has a track record of solid accomplishments and he loves Atlantic Beach. He stated, keep Jim Hanson as the City Manager. Dee Reiter, 1798 Selva Marina Drive, stated she is very concerned about the respect that has not been shown to Commissioner Daugherty who is not here tonight. She stated he had a trip that was planned before this was set that required him to be out of town and asked that this meeting be -4- rescheduled because he wanted to be here to participate in the discussion, to hear what the community had to say so he could make an informed decision when it came time to vote on this and Mayor Woods refused to reschedule the meeting. She asked, what's the emergency and why does it have to be held tonight. She stated she does not understand why these resolutions provide for the firing without cause and for them to never be allowed to work for the City again. She stated there is no reason for that, it makes no sense at all and it is evident there is some personal vendetta agenda against these two men who have served this City capably and ably. She stated she is positive about that. Ms. Reiter stated what she would hope is that this City would be run as a business, without the appearance of any personal agendas or personal vendettas, by the people who have the best interest of this City at heart, and have the best people who run it, who manage it, who govern it and who can give the best legal advice. She stated the appearance so far is that this is not being run as a business. She stated while Mr. Hanson has been the City Manager, the City's wastewater plants have been consolidated to meet the new standards for the St. Johns River, while at the same time saving several hundred thousand dollars of operating costs per year; we have had parks added; the property tax rate remains low; the water and sewer charges are the lowest rates of any utility in the County; service levels are very high; our streets are clean; we have great drainage systems and we have had a lot of success under his leadership. She stated we have had a lot of success under Alan Jensen while he has been here as the City Attorney. She stated it would be a tragic mistake to fire both of them; there is no need for it; there has been no cause shown even by the acknowledgement of the motion as drafted. She stated if they want to represent the citizens of the City, do their best and keep these two capable gentlemen. Mitch Reeves, 1663 Sea Oats Drive, stated he saw on Channel 4, in the news, and in emails on the City's email that the people of Atlantic Beach want the City Manager and the City Attorney fired and that through the campaign we just had here in Atlantic Beach that was what people were saying. He stated he wanted to go on record that he knocked on a lot of doors in six months and many people talked to him about the great things about Atlantic Beach, many people talked to him about things they would like to see changed related to how they were treated at City Hall, but did he have anyone ask him if he would fire the City Manager, he did. He stated but when he asked those people why he found out it was for a personal reason and not a reason for the City of Atlantic. He stated it was either an ex-employee who worked at the City or someone who didn't get a special build done on their house. He stated the ones who just came right out and said I will vote for you if you fire the City Manager had a personal reason. He stated we have a council here who he trusts to be good leaders and he believes each one of them, in their hearts, are really good leaders, but a good leader sits down with good staff and they work out their issues and tell them what they don't like, what they heard from the public. He stated, say you have a year, and if in a year it comes back and it doesn't change, then he votes himself out. He stated they need to think about that and how important it is and what they are doing to change. He stated look at the other cities; Orange Park changed, went through three or four managers and then hired back the original one they fired. He stated, thank God, he didn't have the clause that he couldn't come back. He asked that they really think about what they are doing when they do this. He stated he asked Mr. Hanson how can he sit by someone at a meeting and do his job and smile and continue to do it and he told him, that's what I get paid to do and that's what I'm going to do until the day I leave. Judy Beaubouef, 1209 Beach Avenue, stated she cannot state strongly enough how opposed she is to these resolutions. She believes these resolutions are terribly detrimental to our City. She stated the law of unintended consequences is very powerful. She stated our City is in good shape and that didn't happen by accident. She stated it happened because we have dedicated, talented, long-term staff keeping the city from going off the rails. She stated our City Attorney and City Manager are two of -5- the most critical positions in this City. She stated these positions are not simply fungible; you can't just put somebody else in and expect the same fine result. She stated on the visible horizon we have big and important issues that will tmly require strong skills and experience from our City Manager and City Attorney. She stated we have pressing issues with the City of Jacksonville over the Interlocal Agreement and we need experience, someone who is strong and has been through this, somebody who has shown the skills Mr. Hanson has shown. She stated we also need someone who can negotiate for us as Mr. Jensen. She stated Mr. Jensen is so respected throughout the community, as they saw the last time we went through this drill. She stated they had lawyer after lawyer coming up talking about Mr. Jensen as a professional. She stated he is teiTific and we are lucky to have him. She stated, in fact, we are so lucky to have him that even Mayor Woods said in Resolution 09-17, his dedication to the community and its people has always been at the highest level of competency and commitment. She stated, as far as our City Manager, the largest development in decades is coming along in Selva Marina and asked, do we really want a new City Manager to manage these issues. She stated we need expenence. She stated in the last election all of them ran on transparency and she hasn't seen a bit of it here. Jim Smith, 73 Oceanside Drive, stated he has asked for a legitimate reason as to why we need to terminate these guys and he can't get one except that the community wants it. He stated when he asks why the community wants it, nobody can answer that and so far it appears the community doesn't want it. He stated even the television news media can't get an answer as to why some of you guys want this. He stated he is absolutely against firing these guys without cause. Joe Mitrick, 1708 Park Terrace W., stated he is very much opposed to the firing of Jim Hanson and Alan Jensen and is very much opposed to the resolutions. He stated he believes it would do a disservice to this community and echo the comments made earlier regarding getting rid of these two individuals stating it would truly be a loss to this community. He stated they have made this community special. He stated he served on a community task force when they had the search for the City Manager position back in the '90s and they reviewed many resumes to look at who would be the top three to recommend to the Commission for approval. He stated they have seen the credentials out there and felt Mr. Hanson was the best person and believes he has proven he is the best person, not only from a capability standpoint. He stated he couldn't pick any city he would rather live in and raise his two children than Atlantic Beach and the environment he has created. He stated the services for the City have been exceptional. He stated we have had different Mayors in office but we have always had Mr. Hanson there and he has been an outstanding representative of this community and has been very supportive and with his diplomatic skills and his skills in being a good leader and negotiator and a good business person; our City would have a tremendous loss if either of these individuals were let go. He stated he believes this is premature; this is really the Commission just coming together now as a new Commission and a new Mayor and believes it is very premature to make this decision at this point in time. He stated more thought needs to go into this and echo the comments earlier that we need to identify what the issues are with these individuals and not make a rash decision. He stated he wants to know why they are being terminated. He stated he is very much opposed to it. Tracy Parsons, 1970 Mipaula Court, stated she sees no reason for the firing of Mr. Jensen or Mr. Hanson. She stated no explanation has been given to anyone and it makes no sense; we will look like ridiculous citizens if they terminate these valuable employees. She stated she hopes, if the resolutions are not withdrawn and it does come to a vote, that Commissioner Hill will recuse himself from the votes since he has only been in contact with these two men for 2-3 weeks. She stated he shouldn't be voting on it. She stated a year ago when it was recommended that Mr. Jensen be terminated, the -6- citizens spoke unequivocally to keep him, and asked why is it coming up again. She stated it makes no sense to her. She stated it has been mentioned over and over again that Mr. Hanson has kept our City financially sound; we have no issues with our taxes going up or our services going down and that is all because we have a good leader and he needs to be retained. Steve Abrass, 2317 Barefoot Trace, stated ifhe was looking for a new City Manager, he would look for someone who had the following accomplishments on his resume: extensive experience as a city manager and the management of a public utility, held tax rates over the term of their tenure, maintained taxes at a rate lesser than surrounding municipalities, held water and sewer rates lower than surrounding cities, led significant improvements to the city's stormwater system, oversaw improvements of the park system, oversaw the acquisition of a new preserve, met mandated nitrogen standards with sewer systems while significantly lowering operating costs, excellent fiscal manager, routinely meets budgets, doesn't tap reserves while maintaining services, served as the front man in negotiations with county government on subjects like tipping fees, one that oversees a police department that has very low response times and low crime rates, a person with the highest level of integrity, one that is compassionate and serves the community outside the work hours with organizations like the Exchange Club. He stated they already have that guy in Jim Hanson, who has successfully served our City for 14 years under several mayors, harmoniously, until now. He stated they also have Mr. Jensen who has successfully served our City for 27 years, both as a Commissioner and as the City Attorney. He asked why are we considering throwing out 41 years of experience. He stated not once in Carolyn Woods' campaign website or campaign materials was this topic of firing our City Manager and City Attorney mentioned. He stated, however, the first thing our new mayor did upon election, even before inauguration, was announce her intentions of terminating these gentlemen. He stated he finds this to be disingenuous, lacking transparency and disappointing that an Atlantic Beach elected official would conduct herself in this manner. He stated that is bush league politics and we deserve better. He stated the Commission has an opportunity to move our City forward, we elected you to lead, not divide. He asked that they retain Jim Hanson and Alan Jensen so we can avoid a lengthy period of inefficiency associated with replacing them. Kirk Hansen, 2393 Ocean Breeze Court, stated "the people have spoken" is the only response he has gotten when repeatedly asking the question, give me one specific objective reason to fire the City Manager and City Attorney. He stated he has read the Mayor's campaign material and saw nothing about the City Manager or City Attorney. He stated he read the Mayor's Beaches Watch interview and saw nothing about the City Manager and the City Attorney. He stated he attended the Beaches Watch candidate forum and heard nothing about the City Manager and the City Attorney. He stated the people have not spoken until tonight because the people were never asked. He stated he hopes the Commission will listen to the people tonight as they finally speak out. R.D. DeCarie, 51 Beach Avenue, stated Mr. Hanson and Mr. Jensen have done a great job and the accumulated experience they have running this town for all these years cannot be duplicated with any replacement city attorneys or any replacement city managers. He stated we have tried to bring other people in before with negative results. He stated he is opposed to Resolutions 13-17, 18, 19 and 20 and resents the stacking of the deck against the City Manager and City Attorney with this attempt to satisfy what he considers an agenda. He stated he believes it is a vendetta. He stated there is no mandate by the citizenry of Atlantic Beach to replace these two fine gentlemen. He asked the Commission, what is the positive change that is stated in the papers if they replace the City Manager and the City Attorney, stating he has not heard an answer about that, and what are the several reasons of why they should be replaced. He stated it was not a campaign issue and now all of a sudden it is the -7- first thing that is being shoved down our throats right at the beginning of a new term of a new Commission and he believes it is wrong. He stated a City Manager and a City Attorney will certainly outlast the terms of the current elected officials and any reselection of new manager and new attorney should be taken very seriously. Paul Parsons, 1970 Mipaula Court, welcomed Commissioner Hill. He stated for four years he sat on the right side of Jim Hanson and for four years he sat on the left side of Alan Jensen and there were a lot of times they disagreed and it was funny how he never won any of those. He stated there are a lot of reasons that he can understand why people don't like Jim Hanson. He stated he sees nothing but black and white, and you have to, as a manager. He stated if you go out there and start seeing shaded areas that is not fair to the neighbors or anyone out there. He stated you have to go black and white and do what is right for the City. He stated Alan Jensen has corrected him numerous times during a meeting and he was absolutely right. He stated one lady brought up that he was being paid too much. He stated during his frrst four years they did a study of what other people around were being paid and Jim Hanson was underpaid compared to a lot of cities our size, by about $80k. He stated Mr. Hanson did not take the raises that were offered to him. Robert Persons, 31110th Street, stated he served as Mayor about 30 years ago and knew Alan Jensen then as well as when he was in law school. He stated the City was fortunate enough to hire Alan. He stated if you ask any lawyer in this community who knows him, or knows of him, they will tell you he is one of the finest lawyers in Florida. He stated if you ask anybody that knows about municipal law, they will tell you he is one of the top two or three municipal lawyers in this State. He stated there has been some talk that he makes $116K including his insurance, stating anybody else they hire is probably going to make more than that. He stated Mr. Jensen works for the City at a reduced rate because he really cares about Atlantic Beach. He stated he has heard that the citizens want a change. He stated when he started heming that, he has been asking people if they want to get rid of the City Attorney and City Manager and he couldn't find anyone who said yes. He stated he can't find anyone who will give us a reason besides the blanket, well, the citizens, who don't seem to exist, want to get rid of him. He stated when this comes up for discussion by the Commission we need some articulable reasons that would justify ending these two gentlemen's years of very, very competent service. He stated you don't want to lose the two guys, who combined, pretty much constitute this body politics' institutional knowledge, especially with the Interlocal Agreement coming back up. He stated Alan has been there for all those fights; he was on the Commission when they started bringing that thing up the first time. He stated he knows, not just what it says, anybody can read it; he knows why it says it and why Atlantic Beach demanded this and that and why we can't give them up. He stated you don't want to lose that kind of knowledge. He stated Jim Hanson has the knowledge for the community about why something was done. Mark Tomaski, 448 Snapping Turtle Ct. W., stated he finds it amazing how many attorneys came in on this to help Alan Jensen and he is glad he has that many friends, but this is not about fi·iendship; this is a resolution that is about termination without cause. He stated it would be ridiculous for them to give you cause in public. He asked if you want our City sued or are you baiting them to be sued. He stated this is without cause. He stated there have been many people who have asked for the replacement of these two individuals on two occasions. He stated this last election was incredibly clear that this is what they wanted and for these people to come out and say that isn't the case, I will just say they are attorneys. He stated there is a loss of confidence that has been established in our community and with our Commission which has been going on for some time. He stated these individuals work at the pleasure of the Commission and they can be removed at any point. He stated -8- they have elected to bring this in front of you so you can see and they can hear you before they make their final decision. He stated he believes that is as open government as you can possibly get. He stated when you have that, you don't want it; when you don't get it, you want it. He stated it is mind- boggling to hear some of the people up here talking this way. He stated if you want to get down and dirty and into the nitty gritty he can bring up several reasons to terminate these individuals. He stated the E. coli scare, as a physician, that was serious and somebody should have been terminated for that. He stated you haven't seen children who have died or been sick from this type of illness; when it's bad, it's bad. He stated somebody should have paid the penalty for that; an apology is not acceptable. He stated that same weekend, he was on call and took a call about a lab value that was abnormal and he took care of it. He stated there should have been somebody on call; but there was nobody there to answer the phone. He stated we can talk about the finances; the $11 million spent on the wastewater treatment facility. He stated the other two cities are bragging on how they spent less than $2 million yet one of them even got a $20 million system out of it, which was Jacksonville Beach. He thanked the individuals who live on the beach and within three blocks of the beach who are willing to pay those taxes to make these gentlemen look good, because if he had that much money to work with he wouldn't have to pinch pennies and could look very good. Christopher Martin, 44 Dewees Ave, stated he supports these resolutions to terminate these gentlemen. He stated it doesn't really matter what he thinks or what anybody else thinks; the issue is whether or not they have the confidence of the Commission. He stated it seems to him from his conversations with Commissioners and people in the community that that confidence is not there. He stated it doesn't matter whether we like them or not; it's about having the confidence of the Commission. Luanne Kovacs, 357 4th Street, stated she has a 25 year old son who is a student at UNF in the Masters Department of Public Administration and he had the pleasure, opportunity and privilege to hear Mr. Hanson speak at one of his classes and was able to speak to him for a few minutes. She stated her son told her tonight that he would go to the Commission meeting tonight but he had a final he can't miss and asked her to go say something. She stated she does not understand what all of Commissioners' responsibilities are; what she does understand is that she has been living here for 10 years and this City just runs beautifully. She stated she has lived in a lot of places and this is where she wants to stay. She stated her son said there were so many points he would make if he could be there but the one thing the Commission really needs to realize is that the average number of years that a City Manager stays in one place is 7 years and Mr. Hanson has been managing this City very well for more than double that time and he doesn't understand why a City would fire somebody that stays twice as long and does a great job. She stated at a time when she, herself, and a lot of people in the country are a little frustrated with the people on all levels of govemment who are supposed to be representing her and are too busy being caught up in politics instead of goveming, she hopes that is not the case here. She stated she hopes they think about it and really do what's best for Atlantic Beach; maybe not what's best for each one of them personally. She stated as a resident of Atlantic Beach she is very happy with what's been going on for the past 10 years and her husband and her son are very proud and her son hopes to be just like Mr. Hanson. Laura Ferrante, 1760 Selva Marina Drive, stated she has been an attomey for 28 years and has had the pleasure of working with both Mr. Hanson and Mr. Jensen for at least 10 years. She stated, as a citizen and as someone who has property here, the best thing you can have is fundamental fairness. She stated we all have to live by the ordinances and what the policies and procedures of the City are and we have Commissioners who come and go and people have their agendas. She stated she is not -9- saying anyone here has an agenda but people come in as Commissioners and say they are going to do this and that, but the bottom line is all we really want is fairness; fairness when we want to get a variance, fairness when we want to do something with our fences, and sometimes people lose because Mr. Hanson has to look at the ordinances fairly and in black and white, as someone said tonight. She stated she doesn't know how there could be a loss of confidence by this Commission when Mr. Hill hasn't even been here and hasn't had any experience. She stated she doesn't understand why there is a rush to judgment on this. She stated this is a termination, according to these resolutions, without cause, based on a contract of employment. She stated the contract of employment says that upon a termination without cause the City is going to have to pay. She stated we talk about having people say that they are making too much money; by her calculations we are going to pay six months' salary, benefits, defened compensation, vacation, comp time, holidays, plus 10% for Mr. VanLiere to fill in the position while there is a search. She stated that is anywhere between $75,000-$100,000 we are going to pay for no cause, because that is what the contract says. She stated with regard to Mr. Jensen, we are looking at something very close to that, probably $50,000-$60,000, that the City of Atlantic Beach has to pay as a penalty. She stated she believes this is a rush to judgment; we don't even really know what's going to happen. She stated we have an Orange Park firm that is going to be coming to Atlantic Beach to give us advice and we don't have any idea what their contract looks like or what fees they are going to charge. She stated we are getting reduced rates from Mr. Jensen and by all her personal experience and by all accounts here, both of these gentlemen have done a fabulous job keeping us on track in the City of Atlantic Beach. She stated she would like more time being spent to investigate this issue. Ira Richardson, 312 19th St., stated with his experience of 30 years in the Army, a commander has the right to choose their own staff. He stated the Mayor is freely elected and understands the idea that she is one among equals among the Commissioners but she is elected by the entire City to be our leader. He stated it seems to him on day one there should have been a letter of resignation already filled out by the City Manager, the City Attorney and the Police Chief. He stated she got elected, she has the support of the majority of the community, and she has the right to choose her own staff. He stated the last point he has to make about his Army experience is that we are all replaceable; none of us are so important that we can't be replaced. He stated, in fact, most of us should be replaced. He stated with the snarkiness and the attitude he has seen on this Council the last year, clearly there needs to be a change. He stated if you are going to embrace the progression of the community, you have to be willing to change and you have to have the courage to change. He stated anybody in a position of leadership should understand when their time has come to give it up and now is the time to come to give the Mayor her right to choose her team. He stated in a few years, if you don't like it, change the Mayor. Dick Hilliard, 338 11th Street, addressed the contract for beach cleaning. He stated it is a waste of money with what they call raking, they are just dragging the beach, burying the trash that may be there. He stated all these people need to do is dump the trash cans on the beach and on the walkways, which they don't do now; they dump the ones on the beach and the City sends down a City employee to dump the cans 30-40 ft. up the ramp. He stated if they are going to write a contract, let it be for picking up, like Neptune Beach does, with one person. Paul Gunsaulies, 780 Begonia Street, stating he is looking for fairness in the application ofthe 15ft. rule for boats, campers and work trailers. He stated all property lots are not created equal; some have property lines at the street, some 15 ft. or more off the street. He stated those owners who have property lines well off of the street are not being treated fairly as the ordinance is currently written. -10- He stated all citizens should have the same opportunity to own vehicles without paying exorbitant storage fees and with having the security and convenience of having their property on their property. He stated he would only like to see a small change in the wording of the ordinance of from the property line to from the street or roadway, to make things more uniform for all properties. He asked that they not succumb to a country club or gated community mentality and vote to make the ordinance more uniform and fair. Jeff Montanye, 334 11th Street, stated there were a couple of consistent themes in the majority of the people speaking against the resolutions to terminate the City Manager and Attorney; one was why is this for no cause. He stated the main reason for this being done with no cause is to avoid litigation. He stated perhaps it will cost more money to do it that way, but that assumes the other way, if there were another way done, would have no cost. He stated litigation is very expensive and it could go on for years. He stated many of the previous speakers also noted they had talked to a lot of people and no one they knew wanted this and perhaps this is true. He stated those people, he is guessing, voted for candidates who didn't win. He stated this is an exercise of political rights, democracy of some sort, and as the lady who spoke before said, sometimes you have to lose. He stated this is a process that has been through a number of elections, two at least for sure, and he would think that given the attempt to terminate the Attorney a couple of years ago, that anyone who was paying any attention to City government would know the now Mayor's position. He stated if people voted for her they pretty much knew what she was about. Buddy Hooten, 172 6th Street, stated he supported Carolyn Woods in the last election, when he didn't support her in past campaigns because sometimes their politics are not the same, but he believes this meeting is about the citizenry of Atlantic Beach, not lawyers, doctors, etc. He stated he is talking about decency and when they spent the first part of this meeting talking about discrimination and human rights, he has a real problem with terminating someone when you don't know why. He stated he knows these two gentlemen and has known them for a long time being a resident of Atlantic Beach since 1978. He stated he grew up in a little town and just doesn't like small town politics when no reasons are given. He stated he believes these two guys have done a wonderful job. He stated wonderful things are going on in Atlantic Beach and he just doesn't see the reason to make change with no reason. No one else from the audience spoke so Mayor Woods closed the Courtesy of the Floor to Visitors. 2. Justice Assistance Grant Motion: Authorize the Mayor to sign the related paperwork for the application and the subsequent paperwork related to the JAG grant. In addition, authorize Michael D. Classey to submit the application on line and have the authorization to electronically sign the on-line application on behalf of the Mayor and the City. Moved by Mark, Seconded by Beckenbach Chief Mike Classey explained this grant was to be for the purchase of law enforcement-related equipment in the amount of $2,176, which will be used for two body-mounted video/audio cameras for officers. -11- Votes: Aye: 4-Beckenbach, Hill, Mark, Woods Nay: 0 MOTION CARRIED There being no further discussion by the City Commission, Mayor Woods declared the meeting adjourned at 9:05 p.m. ATTEST Donna L. Bartle, CMC City Clerk -12- Carolyn Woods Mayor