Minutes 8-22-16MINUTES
REGULAR CITY COMMISSION MEETING
August 22, 2016
CITY HALL, 800 SEMINOLE ROAD
IN ATTENDANCE:
Mayor Mitchell E. Reeves
Mayor Pro Tem Jimmy Hill
Commissioner Harding
Commissioner John Stinson
Commissioner M. Blythe Waters
City Attorney Brenna Durden
City Manager Nelson Van Liere
City Clerk Donna L. Bartle
Invocation and pledge to the flag
Mayor Reeves gave the Invocation, followed by the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
Call to Order:
Mayor Reeves called the meeting to order at 6:30 p.m.
1. A. Approve the minutes of the Commission Meeting of August 8, 2016.
Item 1 A was taken out of sequence and acted on later in the meeting.
2. Courtesy of the Floor to Visitors
Mayor Reeves explained the process for public comments.
A. Presentation by Paige Shadden regarding her attendance at American Legion Auxiliary
Girls State in Tallahassee. (Commissioner Stinson)
Commissioner Stinson introduced Paige Shadden. Ms. Shadden thanked everyone for having her here.
She explained the program and her experience at the camp noting that Girls State taught her a lot about
the government and has motivated her to be more informed.
City Clerk Bartle read the Proclamation. Mayor Reeves presented the Proclamation and a pin to Paige
Shadden.
1. A. Approve the minutes of the Commission Meeting of August 8, 2016
Item 1A was taken out of sequence and acted on at this time.
Mayor Reeves asked if there were any corrections to the above minutes. Commissioner Stinson stated
Page 4, after the first sentence in the 5th paragraph, add the sentence: "He stated, it doesn't have to be the
cheapest, but it has to be a good value and the only way to do that is to price it." Commissioner Stinson
stated change # 2 page 4, after the last sentence in the last paragraph, add the sentence: "He also believes
it gives our Public Works a chance to make a couple of phone calls to find out if this service could be
obtained on behalf of the City from another service provider." Mayor Reeves stated the changes have
been accepted and asked if there are any other changes. There were no other changes. Mayor Reeves
stated the minutes are accepted as stated.
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 2
Mayor Reeves introduced Michelle Waterman, Park Manager for the Talbot Island State Parks Complex.
She presented a Florida Recreation Development Assistance Program check for $50,000.00 for the Jack
Russell Park Improvement project. She explained these funds are for the renovation and landscaping of
the existing soccer field as well as renovation and lighting for the existing basketball court.
Mayor Reeves presented City Clerk Donna Bartle with a clock and a pin in recognition of her 25 years of
service with the City.
B. Presentation- Langton Consulting Annual Report on Grant Status.
Melissa Beaudry, 532 Lancaster Street, Jacksonville, FL 32204, reported the status of the grants listed on
the Annual Report. Commissioner Hill inquired if grants will be brought up again in the budget
workshop. Mayor Reeves stated they will be.
Mayor Reeves opened the Courtesy of the Floor to Visitors. City Clerk Bartle called each speaker to the
podium.
John November, 536 South Street, stated he is the new Executive Director and General Counsel for the
Public Trust Environmental Legal Institute of Florida. He explained the importance of the tree canopy
and his support for a tree conservation committee. He expressed his ideas about the tree committee's
charge. He stated there is a major gap in education and awareness and we have to do better at getting
people to know what our tree code is. He believes a tree committee can provide oversight and review of
the permit applications with interpretation that is in line with our code. He stated, in terms of Bennett's
Landing, the use of tree funds would be very valuable. He would like to see a row of legacy trees planted
there. He reported on the $3500.00 grant that was received at the time of the acquisition of the land at
Bennett's Landing explaining the designer has come close to completing that design and he will be
bringing preliminary sketches so the public can be involved at the very beginning. He thanked the
Commission and offered to meet with them individually.
Chris Jorgensen, 92 W. 3rd St., reported he has the cop blue ribbon at his house and appreciates all they
are doing. He thanked Mayor Reeves for the meeting for the flood victims in the Saltair area. He
expressed concern that there is no emergency backup generator. He thanked City Clerk Donna Bartle for
being fantastic over the years. He thanked Human Resource Director Cathy Berry for doing a great job.
He submitted a copy of his written complaints regarding two City Employees and expressed concerns
about the way the City Manager handled the complaints. He explained his conversation with City
Attorney Brenna Durden regarding City Manager Nelson Van Liere's contract approval. He expressed
concerns about the City Manager. He gave special thanks to Commissioner Stinson for fine tuning
matters in the City and to Mayor Reeves for monitoring a very upset crowd.
Lou Keith, 1845 Tierra Verde Lane, spoke in regards to replacement of the tennis courts and asked for
the Commission's support to approve the replacements in the budget. He stated there are some residents
wanting pickleball but believes it is not compatible. He suggested utilizing the courts at Donner Park for
pickleball. He expressed concerns about City contracting with the tennis pro because of the limited
number of courts being available to citizens. He believed the contract should be abolished, and explained
the need to follow reservation procedures. He also believed that the City should never allow over 4 courts
for league play, it should be posted at least two weeks in advance and limit the hours to between Noon to
5:00 pm. He thanked the Commission. He also thanked City Clerk Donna Bartle for being a real
backbone of this community for 25 years.
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 3
Linda Lanier, 1768 Park Terrace West, spoke in support of and explained the need for a tree canopy
board. She stated she is a member of the Community Development Board and sees how much citizen
decisions and opinions about our tree canopy are fraught with a lack of information about trees,
misunderstandings about our codes and our rules, a lack of long-term thinking about our environment and
just plain raw emotions. She stated people get really upset about trees and it creates a situation where we
put neighbor against neighbor and we have periodic battles between tree protection advocates and
property rights advocates. She suggested that the citizen board could be charged with curating our
natural canopy, ensuring that developers and homeowners understand the codes and zoning rules that
protect our trees, reviewing the current zoning and codes to ensure that the best practices in municipal
tree protection are enforced, ensuring that the public has access to practical information about selecting
and planting appropriate trees, maintaining them in a healthy and safe way, removing them properly in
accordance with code, and avoiding unscrupulous, untrained tree trimmers. She further suggested having
the tree board be a curator of the green canopy in the City parks, preservation properties, on our roadways
and in our public spaces. She encouraged the establishment of something like a tree canopy board stating
it will do our community a great public service and will be getting out in front of some serious issues.
Steven Fouraker, 387 6th Street, explained we are at a significant crossroads in our community stating
this is a time to encourage citizen participation in our government, not to discourage it; we would not
have Howell Park or Johanssen Park if not for the participation of the best and brightest of our
community to help guide the Commission to make proper decisions. He believed if we have a large
surplus in our budget, rather than reducing the millage rate, use it to create east -west safe paths to schools
and hiring more police officers to make all paths safe. He hoped Commissioner Waters' suggestion to
alert Sherry Drive and Seminole residents individually to our upcoming Town Hall meeting is being
accomplished. He thanked Commissioner Hill for his reservations in taking federal money just to take
federal money and Commissioner Harding for his reservations on the Safe Paths Project on the East-West
paths. He alerted the residents and the press that possible undue influence is being exerted by certain
builders and developers on our Mayor and maybe some of our Commissioners to reverse many positive
changes in our City government that have been implemented over the past few years. He also stated that
our City Staff apparently uncovered illegal transactions involving licenses and permits by Bosco Building
Contractors, Inc. and apparently our City Manager and Building Department had been pressured by
Bosco and his developer to cease pursuing legal remedies against these illegal activities.
Suzanne Shaughnessy, 168 Ocean Walk Dr. S., reported an incident where she had to call the non-
emergency number and spoke to Veronica. She stated Veronica could not have been more helpful and if
you are looking for a way to exemplify the way that someone can truly wish to serve citizens, this lady
could teach the course. She commented on how she liked the new blue planters. She asked if someone
could make an inquiry to the City of Jacksonville as to what they are doing about mosquito control this
year. She concurs with John November and everything he said. She explained a concept to use your
expertise of the citizen community to augment the expertise of your staff and pointed out that we have a
number of people in the city who are qualified master gardeners who may be interested in sitting on any
kind of tree committee or board.
City Clerk Bartle read the names and comments from the citizens who did not want to speak as follows:
Russell Haden, 559 Selva Lakes Circle, is in support of agenda item 8A which is the waiver request.
Sandra Haden, 559 Selva Lakes Circle, is in support of agenda item 8A which is the waiver request.
No one else from the audience spoke. Mayor Reeves closed the Courtesy of the Floor to Visitors.
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Pa2e 4
3. Unfinished Business from Previous Meetings
A. 2016 Annual Evaluations for the Three Appointed Positions (Mayor Reeves)
Mayor Reeves explained that the item was discussed previously. He explained evaluations are not to
write up employees about all bad things, it's about the good things; they are to help employees get to the
next level where they might be weak and need guidance. He believes the evaluations need to be rewritten
next year to include objectives for the employees to meet and he gave an example. He stated employees
want to be evaluated and they know their weaknesses and strengths. He urged the Commission to meet
with the three employees and have the forms filled out because last time not everything was done by the
other Commission. He explained that you would let the employee down by not doing that. He explained
that the forms are to be turned in to Human Resources (H.R.) by the 29th so H.R. can average the scores
which will be given to the Commission. He explained that he would like to add one more column and
asked about having the three appointed employees evaluate themselves.
Commissioner Hill explained why the process was added by the last Commission. He suggested each
Commissioner do their own style of evaluation and urged the Commission not to use this tool in a way
that restricts the regular flow of communication which should be taking place every time we speak to
these individuals. He stated he believes they should be evaluated every time we talk to them. He stated
the purpose for the evaluations was to give some public insight into the evaluations and maybe that tool
could reflect a collage of all of our comments. He explained how evaluating them on the wrong day or
during the wrong project could cause a skewed view of where they stand for their full performance and
he reiterated the need to evaluate on an ongoing basis. He explained his experiences with evaluations and
believes evaluations should have flexibility and we should not put too many restrictions on it.
Mayor Reeves stated what we are putting on it is a tool to help our staff improve; employees want to
improve and to know how they stand with their superiors; they want to meet that goal and we need to
give them the tools to do that because we are cheating our employees if we do not do that. He explained
the process to evaluate at the beginning of the year, again in six months and then again at the end of the
year. He reiterated the need for the employees to do a self-evaluation.
Commissioner Harding stated there has to be open communication between the employee and the
evaluator and the best way to do that is to sit down and have an evaluation feedback session, whether it's
quarterly or semi-annually, because at the end of nine months or a year, when you sit down with the
person, it is too late for them to make corrections for that report which means you are short-changing
them. He believes looking forward we need to look at the evaluation process and put something clear cut
in the evaluation process for some feedback sessions which could include objectives and self -evaluations.
Commissioner Waters stated the evaluation form is very basic and the narrative section provides a
request for feedback for goals for improvement. She stated she has no problem with adding self-
evaluation to the process and believes it is an important part for anybody being evaluated of a reality
check. She believes that the narrative portion of the form allows for the Commission to add objectives
and agrees with Commissioner Harding that the employees have to be given time to address those issues.
She added that if this is their first evaluation, not that we have not made request and provided feedback in
our meetings with them, they have to have the ability to respond to those. She cautioned our feedback
should be constructive; these are specific things we would like to see, goals, and suggestions for how to
achieve them. She believed often times we provide feedback, thinking it is constructive, but it can
sometimes be punitive. She explained trying to keep things as these forms are, in a broader basic way, but
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 5
providing specific goals for improvement, keeps the evaluation process productive and constructive and
not punitive which she believes is something both Commissioners Hill and Harding are speaking to. She
believes employees need to have the ability to act on the feedback we give them and in order to do that it
has to be good feedback and they have to have the time and ability to do that. She stated instituting a time
after our evaluations to see how things are going makes sense.
Commissioner Stinson stated he likes the process of performance appraisal and believes the input from
the person being evaluated is extremely valuable because it highlights or identifies areas where you may
see things differently. He stated communication is vitally important and we are doing performance
evaluations at the highest level of the City. He explained our three direct reports are in here twice a
month and it is somewhat obvious what our expectations are or it should be, so it does not require a
quarterly or an every six-month process necessarily; it is not so obscure what it is we expect.
Commissioner Hill suggested giving this back to the HR Director to modify with whatever changes you
would like to see in the evaluation. He reiterated that he does not want this process to turn into anything
but an improvement tool or a clear cut identification for a problem that cannot be corrected.
Mayor Reeves explained he would like to see something with objectives and goals so the employee has
something to reach out to and explained the importance of self -evaluating.
Human Resource Director Cathy Berry explained she has revised the three tools to make them self-
evaluation tools and has also revised the summary sheet so the evaluations are all due next Monday at
5:00 p.m. She explained the reason for the strict deadline is she has to do the summaries and compile the
information because she has a full day on Tuesday and she has to submit them on Wednesday for the
agenda.
Mayor Reeves stated the consensus is that we are okay with that and we need to take re-examine this
evaluation for next year going forward. Ms. Berry answered questions and explained she will email the
self-evaluation forms to the three positions tonight. Mayor Reeves further explained how the scores will
be provided as averages in an effort to make it fair. He thought it was interesting that from the last
Commission, those who wanted it, never filled them out and never interviewed them, which is another
issue. He indicated that the scores from the self-evaluation would be on a column next to the average
from all of the Commission.
Ms. Berry addressed the objectives, stating it is very difficult for a Commission to set objectives that are
then measured because, unless they are smart objectives that are measurable and defined, everyone is
going to have a different set of objectives and a different method of rating. Mayor Reeves stated after the
Commission tells Ms. Berry what the objectives are, she will have to follow those objectives and put
something together. Ms. Berry explained she has not been discussing or getting input from the City
Manager. City Manager Van Liere inquired as to whether he is supposed to meet with each of the
Commissioners between now and next Monday and the ratings will be done and the average will be
scored all by the 29th. Ms. Berry explained that each of the five elected officials and the three appointed
positions will turn the evaluations in by 5:00 p.m. on Monday, August 22, 2016, she will take Monday
night to summarize them, average them, have two columns, and have it ready with a draft staff report for
the agenda. Mayor Reeves explained that the three appointed positions will meet with each commissioner
after the 29th to discuss the ratings they were given. He stated it is interesting that most people did not
even do the personal interview last year. Ms. Berry explained the process used last year. Commissioner
Hill believes it should be up to the individual Commissioners to decide if they want to meet because if
you meet with the individual employees regularly and you don't have a lot of questions, there may not be
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Pan 6
a need, but that is not the time for constructive input and not the time to curve their behavior; that is the
time to purely evaluate. He believes that after the evaluation, they should be afforded the opportunity to
talk to you about your evaluation if they have questions. Mr. Van Liere asked when will we have a
discussion about the differences between our ratings that gets fixed before it goes in the agenda packet.
Mayor Reeves stated it won't get fixed. He encouraged Commissioners to sit down with each of the
three appointed positions to explain why they gave the evaluation they did. Commissioner Hill explained
there is no quantifiable result to this; there is no action based on any number given; it is a measurement
tool for measurement only and it has no impact on anything. He stated if we see a trend and everyone
agrees that that trend needs correction, then we would be in a position to make any adjustments,
suggestions or anything.
4. Consent Agenda
ALL MATTERS LISTED UNDER THE CONSENT AGENDA ARE CONSIDERED TO BE
ROUTINE BY THE CITY COMMISSION AND WILL BE ENACTED BY ONE MOTION IN
THE FORM LISTED BELOW. THERE WILL BE NO SEPARATE DISCUSSION OF THESE
ITEMS. IF DISCUSSION IS DESIRED, THAT ITEM WILL BE REMOVED FROM THE
CONSENT AGENDA AND WILL BE CONSIDERED SEPARATELY. SUPPORTING
DOCUMENTATION AND STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS HAVE BEEN PREVIOUSLY
SUBMITTED TO THE CITY COMMISSION ON THESE ITEMS.
A. Acknowledge receipt of the Monthly Recreation Programs Special Events Report and
Financial Report for July 2016.
B. Award the contract including Added Alternates #1 and #2 to the low bidder, R&D
Landscaping & Irrigation, (the current contractor who provides these services), for an
annual total of $124,791.00. Allow the City of Jacksonville to piggyback on the contract
for Added Alternate #3.
C. Extend the contract with Moline Electric Motor & Machine, Inc. for Repair of Electrical
Motors & Pumps (Bid No. 1112-08) for one year at the current prices, term being August
27, 2016 to August 26, 2017.
City Clerk Bartle read the consent agenda.
Mayor Reeves asked if anyone wished to pull an item from the consent agenda for discussion.
Commissioner Stinson pulled 4C and Commissioner Hill pulled 4B.
Commissioner Stinson indicated this was in the consent agenda on August 8th
and two requests were
made at that meeting regarding this contract. He explained one was that the City Manager provide us
with a copy of the contract which is in the agenda package. He asked whether staff checked these prices
to confirm they are competitive and that this is a good value for the City of Atlantic Beach. Mr.
Jacobovich explained this contract was competitively bid in August of 2012 and it was awarded at that
time with the bids provided. He noted a copy is in your current packet. He explained it was awarded for
a three-year term and last year it was awarded with a one-year renewal at the same rate as initially
approved. He further explained he is asking for another renewal which is the last renewal allowed in this
contract with those 2012 prices. Commissioner Stinson asked for confirmation that they did not do
anything to check the prices. Public Works Director Don Jacobovitz explained the bids were checked in
August of 2012 with three different vendors. Commissioner Stinson explained why he keeps pulling
things off the consent agenda. He believed that, for anything on the consent agenda, we should feel
certain that when it is presented to us, there is support throughout the Commission for it. He explained
how the market changes and stated they asked for that to be looked at. He expressed his disappointment
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 7
that the bidders were not called and asked what the current rate is. City Manager Van Liere explained in
our purchasing process and procedures, piggybacking is an accepted method of doing that and the reason
is we do not have a staff that looks into every expense we expend every year. He stated we could change
and develop policies to not issue multi-year contracts to make a bid threshold lower so that we have to go
out for competitive bidding at a lower threshold, but the policy we have now is $25,000 or above or if we
expect it to be $25,000 or above we will bid it out. He explained the bid process is a lot of work;
advertising and compliance issues and things like that, so we take advantage of the opportunity like many
other governments do by piggybacking. He indicated that if he had a bigger staff, we could chase down
every price on everything that we do, but when we do get pricing from vendors, we try to be fair to all of
them and that is why it is an advertised bid so that they all get the same opportunity to bid for the same
thing. He stated if we need to do it more often or do not do multi-year contracts, that would be a policy
change, but we are bringing these to you within our guidelines that are set up to run our purchasing
department as efficiently as we can. Commissioner Stinson stated the request two weeks ago was not to
bid it out; the request was to pick up the phone and make a call to make sure that we are getting a good
value and that the value is still good. He stated that Commissioner Waters made the comment that she
believes the pricing that was done in 2012 is probably much better than the pricing we can get today. He
stated that is highly possible, but it is also possible that it is better; it does not take a bid; it does not take
more than about 30 minutes. He asked why this was not done when we asked the City Manager to do it
at the last Commission meeting. City Manager Van Liere stated he felt that providing you with the bid
information from the last time it was competitively bid per our procedures is all the information that he
has on this purchase; we don't generally make cold calls to vendors to try to get better pricing without
going through the official bid process. Commissioner Waters stated she wanted to go back to an earlier
item that was pulled off the consent agenda which is the Gorman -Rupp pumps. She addressed questions
to Commissioner Stinson about when he tried to call the companies that were competitively bid and none
of them would give him a bid. She explained he repeated what you asked our staff to do and did not have
a positive outcome. She stated it was almost 3 months between the time that it was pulled off the consent
agenda and the statement was made by Commissioner Stinson to the Commission that he was unable to
get a quote or a bid from companies that now know a Commissioner has asked for it to be pulled off a
consent agenda and considers it important enough to pursue potentially better pricing and bidding and it
still was not worth it for them to give a bid. She asked, based on that experience, can you explain why
you want the staff to repeat that experience on a regular basis to what productive end if you could not
accomplish the same thing; did they not want to talk to you because you were not a purchasing agent; is
there a reason you are asking the City that we do not understand. Commissioner Stinson stated that is a
perfect example of what he is trying to get the City Manager to engage his staff to do. He indicated he
had asked two or three times for them to take it out to bid and it never happened, so he took that burden
upon himself. He explained how he called the local pump manufacturer and they were excited at first,
but after telling the company he was with the City of Atlantic Beach they started questioning why a
commissioner is calling for prices rather than City staff. He stated they believed they were wasting their
time because they have a deal with Gorman -Rupp that they are not going to turn their back on and that is
why it happened and why he could not get anywhere. He reiterated the need to look at these things and
does not believe it is difficult for the City. Commissioner Waters challenged Commissioner Stinson's
logic that the representative believed there was no way this was going to happen. She pointed out that
the Commission has the ultimate power to approve or not approve the Gorman -Rupp purchases; if we are
calling, it should be clear to them that we have the ultimate authority. She stated that the logic of that
statement does not make sense.
Commissioner Stinson stated he is one of five and needs the support of the other four or it does not
happen. Commissioner Hill stated he suspects what is happening is somewhere in between what the two
commissioners are thinking. He believes there is a perceived price built into our society that any
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 8
government agency or municipality is going to pay a higher fee and no vendor wants to upset that long
held tradition. Commissioner Hill stated he appreciates Commissioner Stinson's view of looking at every
dime more closely. He stated he feels the staff is doing a fair job and there is room for improvement, but
he does not believe we are going to get a sweeping economic windfall from doing it because of the extra
time and the element of the perceived order of bids.
Commissioner Hill stated the reason he was going to pull 4C himself is because he does not care what the
issue is he wants to see the actual dollar amount if they are on the consent agenda, as this is the only
place this can show up in the public window.
Commissioner Hill stated he pulled item 4B because he has concerns for the safety of the crews working
those streets. He stated he feels the City should increase our requirement to our vendor in the areas of
operating with personnel and traffic. He stated he is going to leave it on the consent agenda, but in the
future he would like the City to take the extra role of making it part of our contract that they operate in a
safer manner through a physical barrier if they are in the street.
Commissioner Waters stated when requests are made, such as Commissioner Hill's, there is no formal
follow up procedure in practice in the City and she feels it would be productive for the Commission to
consider and engage in a system to create a trail so that we are certain our requests are followed up on.
She would like to see a more streamlined approach for follow up.
Commissioner Stinson called for a point of order, stating we are on 4C and he believes it requires a vote.
Motion: Approve Consent Agenda Item C as read.
Moved by Hill, Seconded by Waters
Roll Call Votes:
Aye: 2 - Hill, Waters,
Nay: 3 - Harding, Stinson, Reeves
MOTION FAILED
Commissioner Stinson stated he would like to make a motion to suspend the rules in order to have a
conversation about his lack of confidence in the City Manager.
Motion: Suspend the rules.
Moved by Stinson, Seconded by Harding
Roll Call Votes:
Aye: Stinson, Harding, Reeves
Nay: Hill, Waters
MOTION CARRIED
Commissioner Stinson recalled a previous meeting where the Commission asked that if he had issues he
should bring them to the Commission for discussion. He explained the following situations involving the
City Manager that caused him to come to this point. Two separate conversations regarding the Cloister
where the City Manager did not understand the need to abide by the CDB ruling; reasons given when he
failed to get a survey for the Cloister; posted a job to fill a position in which the posting took
responsibilities out of the City Clerk's Office without first making the change to the Code; failure to
follow directive to put signs up at the Cloister South Gate; decision to change the reporting requirement
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 9
for the Building Inspector; decision to not contract with Jeremy to help with the Gate Petroleum battle;
yelling at one of the Commissioners; taking off on Fridays for his accounting recertification without
approval; not notifying the Commission when he takes vacation; mistakes on the audit that should not
have occurred since the City Manager has a finance background and should be mentoring Finance
Director Russell Caffey; communication is dysfunctional; change in position on the need for parking at
Town Center; explanation at the Budget Workshop regarding the percent of raises; his response that he
had spoken to each Commissioner regarding what they would like in the budget, but he had not spoken to
him about it; and not sending flowers as requested on two separate occasions. Commissioner Stinson
stated he has a lack of trust for the City Manager and questions his commitment. He asked what project
has been brought to the City from the five of us that has been embraced, worked on and brought to
completion noting that Commissioner Harding doesn't have the rest of his park, Commissioner Waters
does not have her chicken ordinance; Commissioner Hill doesn't have his low speed electrical vehicle
ordinance; and he wants a tabletop exercise on emergency management but feels like he's running into a
brick wall every time he walks into City Hall to talk about something that needs to be done. He stated he
may be the only person who feels this way and if he is, he is willing to go back to the drawing board and
continue working. He reiterated that he is doing what he was told to do, by bringing it here for
discussion and not having it in private. He stated he is a team player.
Commissioner Harding stated he too was in shock during the budget workshop when the same question
was asked about whether the City Manager had gotten with all of the elected officials and received input
as far as projects they would like to see put in the budget. Commissioner Harding stated he too had never
had a single conversation with the City Manager in regards to items for the budget. He indicated he has
had numerous conversations in regards to projects he has brought forward that he would like to see done.
He stated some of those are part of the agenda. He explained his examples of concerns which included an
incident during the cleanup at Jasmine Street where the Public Works Director had taken it upon himself
and far surpassed the level that was envisioned by the City Staff which he believes the administrator is
ultimately responsible for; he has asked on numerous occasions for improvements to the Tide views Pier;
he has asked for lighted crosswalks on at least two occasions for the heavily traveled intersections; he
has asked for a report on what measures were taken prior to clearing the TriBridge lot and specifically
what was done to protect the wildlife on that property. He stated he has yet to receive any kind of
response. He stated on February
22nd the City Manager proposed a strategic planning session prior to the
budget workshops; on August 13th, two days prior to the budget workshop, he was emailed a copy of the
budget agenda and it stated it was not the City Manager's intent to disseminate the budget prior to the
workshop which he would have liked to have the opportunity to review and prepare for. He explained he
is a new Commissioner and believes the City Staff would want to have the additional time and one-on-
one to try and address specific projects and prepare us to make decisions that are in the best interest of the
City of Atlantic Beach. He stated he believes there is a serious communication issue here. He recalled
the last Commission meeting when the City Manager was asked if the practice is to routinely go out and
ask for a courtesy bid or courtesy update on hourly rates or the market rate today before we go out and
rebid something. He stated his opinion was that City Staff was directed to at least call and find out what
the current hourly rate or the current rate for repairing electric motors and pumps is, not what it was back
in 2012. He expressed concern that he did not have that information in his packet and it threw up red
flags as well.
Commissioner Hill explained that Government moves slow and Commissioners are no longer disgruntled
citizens, they are part of the team to fix the project. He believed after watching 30 years of swapping
employees and the damage done by actions like this without well thought out plans to have a position to
go forward into puts them on very dangerous ground. He stated we entered into a process this evening of
airing our laundry. He addressed some of the concerns expressed tonight as follows: The Police Chief is
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 10
who told us the signs are unenforceable and we cannot change traffic safety law; The Mayor and the City
Manager have very heated conversations and are productive at times and not productive at others and he
has not been yelled at by the City Manager and has a very good chain of communication with him; he has
no big projects on the table that he expected to be any farther than they are today; changing the ordinance
into a non -low speed vehicle community into a low speed vehicle community is a massive project; it is
not something that is going to happen in a hurry and he has been gathering information and the City
Manager presented a very complex and very well thought out ordinance that is on the table, but it is not
time to move it because we find ourselves constantly in conflict in this little town; we asked the City
Manager to look into the parking which he brought a solution for and we were able to vote on, but don't
get mad at him for bringing it up; and the tabletop was done.
Commissioner Hill stated he does not feel we have the best City Manager in the world, but we have the
best City Manager we have had in a long time. He indicated he has no problem with confidence with
him; he believes he can improve and it is the Commission's job to help him do that. He stated he does not
think as a community we can take a sweeping change in our staffing at that level and get through it,
noting that we have a stable, productive and happy work force that is doing more for less and not asking
for more. He believed the City Manager does a decent job of hiring people and appropriate actions were
taken when the Public Works Director was not a fit. He stated he understands the frustration noting that
when he first sat up here he wanted everything to start moving and wanted to save every penny he could.
He stated it has very little to do with the City Manager and more to do with the Commission. He stated
he does not have a confidence issue and asked them to reach out and find a way forward to make the
team work. He believes something broke down in the communication because he does not share most of
those frustrations and he is very confident in the capabilities. He expressed concern that the
Commissioners were prepared to talk about this tonight.
Commissioner Waters explained communication is a two-way street. She reported there is a very
different communication experience, not with just the City Manager, but with other City employees. She
explained that she is in City Hall if not every week at least every other week and in between, she may
reach out by phone to anyone on staff that she needs answers from. She explained she has not
experienced difficulty getting answers in any way. She commented on the Cloister and the timeline given
for the CDB decision and stated that meeting is one of the bigger fiascos because we went in guns
blazing that we were going to provide a solution. She further explained the problem at Tenth Street and
the Cloister. She stated we often times instruct our City employees to listen to citizens before they bring
something to the table and then we castigate them when they listen and do not provide solutions and then
if citizens complain when a solution is provided that they don't like, we ask why didn't you listen to them
first and why did you just bring a solution to the table. She explained when she says communication is a
two-way street she makes an effort, she keeps track of things she wants answers to and she makes sure
she follows up. She explained she often times asks her questions and gets her answers as part of her
homework for each individual meeting. She stated when it comes to running a City efficiently, there are
many opinions about multi-year bids and about investigating each bid. She gave an example to make the
point of efficiency, noting the small margin of gain or loss allows employee time to be spent on other
vital things that make a bigger difference to the business. She explained multi-year bids are contracted
with specific companies and often times because they garner our business over the long haul, negotiate us
better deals on a day-to-day basis and we free up employee time for more productive things. She
believed there is a disagreement of opinion about the way the City does business and she is happy to deal
with that as a Commission, but to lay that entirely at the feet of the City Manager and say it is a reason
for lack of trust she has a hard time with that. She believed if you really want the information, you should
follow up. She explained she spoke to the City Manager about the parking and agreed that it should go
on the agenda and she explained why she thought it was worth investigating. She explained how she
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 11
knew from the City Manager by the time she met that many people were not interested in pursuing it, but
at the same time providing parking solutions for Town Center is a long-term necessity on the City's
agenda and something she believes in. She stated it does not mean pursuing parking solutions at Town
Center is a fiasco or bad decision on the City Manager's part. It means this solution that came up as an
opportunity with some good reasons to be presented to us was not the solution our citizens and our
Commission decided to undertake. She addressed the tabletop exercises explaining that she sat down
with Lieutenant Vic Gualillo and he has an unbelievable knowledge of the emergency preparedness plan
for the City and how it interacts and he communicates that on a regular basis through regular meetings
both with his subordinates and with Chief Deal and with the City Manager. She expressed concern over
the lack of recognition for the job that Commander Gualillo has done. She added that employee morale
is something that was mentioned and she thinks employee morale does have room for improvement. She
explained her meeting with Jeremy Hubsch was completely different noting that the lack of support from
the Commission for City employees in these chambers played a huge role in his decision to leave. She
indicated that if he was going to get beat up from citizens and beat up in the hearing and the commission
was not going to support him he could look in the private sector and do less work and make more money.
She further explained Mr. Hubsch's willingness to come back and do work for the City. She addressed
the chicken ordinance, stating that was actually Commissioner Hill's ordinance and is something she is
working on. She indicated she has talked to the City Manager about it on four separate meetings and he
is fighting her a little bit; but believes it is good productive fighting and it makes a better ordinance when
she decides it is time to bring it. She commented on his input being incredibly helpful and that he saves
the City a lot of money. She stated she had projects she has brought to the City Manager that he has
helped her complete that have gone through. She believes there is room for improvement in terms of
communication, but there was a lack of communication under the direction of a previous long-term City
Manager and that culture is not something that changes quickly because it was in existence for a long
time. She explained they need to address the culture and provide productive solutions to move forward
and address some of the concerns that are brought up. She mentioned looking into software that may
help in tracking. She mentioned the complaint filed by Mr. Jorgensen and explained why she does not
disagree with the City Manager that permanent records in the employee files are not appropriate in this
case. She explained the cost of change is very high and noted the cost of our legal fees skyrocketing as an
example. She reiterated that the cost of change and looking at productive ways to go forward together as
a Commission are things that ought to be considered in this discussion.
Mayor Reeves called for a break at 9:03 P.M. and called the meeting back to order at 9:14 p.m.
Commissioner Stinson stated he wanted to respond to some of the statements that were made. He has the
utmost respect for his fellow commissioners and heard what they are saying, but wants to clarify. He
explained that the signs put up were not what they asked for which is why they were not enforceable and
had they been what were asked for they would have been. He mentioned the HRO meetings and how it
was one reason he ran for office. The tabletop that was done was not an exercise in our emergency
management plan, it was Jacksonville's. He stated that if the plan is so good, all he wants to do is
demonstrate that and does not understand why there is so much resistance to that. He explained that as far
as communication, he did not count, but he would venture to say that 95% of the communication between
the City Manager and himself is initiated by him stating that it is rare that he gets a phone call or an email
from the City Manager asking for his support, asking to talk about something or giving him information.
He believes communication is an issue, but not the primary issue. He addressed Commissioner Waters'
comment by clarifying that the CDB ruling was about 11 months before they took office. He explained
there was a solution and he brought it forward twice but nothing happened. He expressed his frustration
when government works slowly when it does not have to and stated the cost of an employee bidding
something out is an easy demonstration. He stated that parking is important to our City and our Town
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 12
Center merchants and on three or four occasions he has asked for a parking study to be done and nothing
has happened. He believed they were very supportive of Jeremy Hubsch and feels bad that Mr. Hubsch
does not feel they were. He tried to be defensive of Mr. Hubsch when people were being down right
mean to him in the paper. He explained the agenda software has been mentioned several times and seems
to have fallen on deaf ears. He defended Ms. Durden explaining the reason the legal counsel costs are
going up is because of Gate Petroleum and the Cloister and perhaps we need a report on that showing
how much is dedicated to those two issues and how much is for routine City business. He addressed the
comment that this was on the agenda for later is not correct. He stated he could see how his agenda item
could have been perceived as that but that was not the conversation he was going to have. He explained
the conversation he wanted to have was that the contract for the City Clerk, City Attorney and City
Manager have been handled differently and wanted support for a recipe for how we do it so that it is
consistent, understandable and citizens all get their voice. He explained his plans to cover that in a
moment and give all the facts. He responded on comments made about being this prepared stating that
he takes really good notes and when he realized what was asked for is not in the agenda packet, he went
back through his notes that he keeps which helps during performance evaluations. He added he was
prepared because he felt 100% certain he was going to end up in this position asking why he did not get
what he asked for in the last Commission meeting. He believes he did not ask for something that cost a
lot of money, or takes a lot of time and he did not get a response at all. He gave examples of responses
that could have been given. He believes it is unfortunate he was not the only one that did not have a
conversation about the budget.
Mayor Reeves stated he has been very frustrated with the City Manager and the City Manager has been
very frustrated with him. He explained that he respects that but does not respect that he and citizens do
not get follow ups. He stated his biggest concern is that he asked for a report three months ago of how
many building permits we do monthly showing the value, and how many of them are still open and to
this day he has not received that report. He explained his concern that he is an elected official and cannot
get it, so how are residents living here receiving the information they ask for. He responded to a
comment that it is their job to help people improve explaining he has met with the City Manager many
times and tried to give advice and that advice was never taken. He stated so after a while you just stop
giving advice. He reported that he has been accused by the City Manager of being a micro manager and
believes he has the right to say that because if he was doing his job the Mayor would not have to micro
manage. He explained their first debate which happened on November 8th when there was a flood and he
questioned why we did not have City Staff out here to run barricades instead of the police officers, where
was the City Staff, where was the emergency plan for the flood, where were the pumps, where was
everything and there was no answer. He reported they did not even have the City Manager's phone
number at dispatch. He stated he and the City Manager have never stopped communications with each
other. He stated we have spent a lot of money on legal fees and it makes him wonder why. He asked if
it is because people are coming after us for everything. He believes follow up is important and it has been
said tonight we are not getting follow up which is his biggest concern. He explained another issue from
September 26, 2015 where he sent the City Manager an email asking him to look into a question about
public hearings and the City Manager had the source look into it. He explained he also asked the City
Attorney to look into it which he did but he gave the answer in person and would not give it in writing
because it was his job to protect the City. He further explained he went to the City Manager asking him to
give his answer in writing and was told there were four instances so he asked for a procedure to be put in
place so this would never happen again. He explained he wanted it cleared up before he took office but
to this day, he still has not seen a new procedure about public notices. He explained his verbal response
was there were four instances so he asked the City Manager to put that in writing and had to ask multiple
times before directing him to put it in writing and then he did. He explained that he gave the City
Manager a list of three more because there was a total of seven. He explained other examples of times he
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 13
asked for things such as an American flag at the five -way stop and a plaque for the Army camp. He
wonders why they were not updated on issues, so he would not have to ask. Mayor Reeves stated he
hears people talk about transparency and feels the Commission does a good job about being transparent,
but his problem is that City Staff and government is not transparent enough to let people know. He
believes it could stop some of these letters to the editors if we would just be proactive and get the word
out. He believes that the City Manager does care very much. Mayor Reeves explained a time when they
got into an argument when the question of why Mr. Van Liere wants to be a City Manager came up.
Mayor Reeves believes Mr. Van Liere means well for our City and is a very smart man. He believes that
whether it comes from citizens or a Commissioner, if it is not the City Manager's idea, it is not something
we can move forward with. Mayor Reeves indicated he did ask for something for this budget and asked
the City Manager to reach out to the other Commissioners, which he said he did, so I took his word for it
and he did say he could not reach Commissioner Stinson because he was out of town. Mayor Reeves
indicated he asked the City Manager how often he calls a Commissioner and tells them what is going on
or call a Commissioner and ask what their thoughts are on a question and his answer was none. Mayor
Reeves recalled a conversation he had with Mayor Borno about how often he heard from his City
Manager and was told the City Manager called all the time to brief and let him know. He believes we
can improve as long as it is a two-way conversation. He explained some of the debates were about why
citizens call the Mayor or a Commissioner instead of the City Manager. He explained it could be because
our website does not make it easy to find who to call or who to talk to and is not sure the citizens know
who our City Manager is. He reported the Beaches Chamber of Commerce is a very important
organization for our businesses here and requested the City Manager start attending those meetings and
represent the City so he could see what was going on and to know and listen to the heartbeat of our
community. Mayor Reeves stated he assumed Mr. Van Liere would be there, but was not able to be. He
believes the City Manager is hard worker but is concerned why someone works every Saturday and
Sunday to keep up with everything. He believes a person has to want to improve, but does not feel that.
He stated that is his frustration. He reported he meets with him every Monday and will continue to meet
with him. Mayor Reeves explained the need for this to be worked out and requested having a Round
Table Meeting on September 10th to continue these discussions in an effort to work out these differences
because something has got to change. He explained that the City Manager is the heart of our City and all
the blood runs through him and when a Commissioner asks the question why are we going out to bid on a
building that I don't see in the budget the City Manager should know what that building is; somebody
should have signed off before the bid went out. Mayor Reeves reiterated that Mr. Van Liere is intelligent
and means well and wants to do what is best thing for this City, but he has to be willing to work with us
on that and if he is not so be it.
Commissioner Hill believed the Commission does not understands a lot of what is going on sometimes.
He referenced Commissioner Harding's comment regarding the Aquatic Drive project and explained that
this board, without his vote, approved clear -cutting the property and you cannot go back and ask for a
wildlife survey when the lot is dirt; there is no wildlife there to talk about the impact. He explained the
liability problem it would put the City in. He stated the budget is the Commission's budget, not the City
Manager's and if you want something, you should add it because it is not his job to add it; it is his job to
bring us the City's function. He believes the main issue is a breakdown in communication.
Commissioner Hill recalled the previous City Manager having weekly meetings with the Commissioner
and stated he is going to ask Mr. Van Liere if he would make that an automatic thing on a regular basis.
He explained the issue that he sees is we are all experts of everything up here and it is a tough
environment to put a City Manager in and not give him clear direction. He believes we need to give the
City Manager an opportunity to start the communication process over and he explained why.
Commissioner Hill stated he believes the Mayor does not understand his role and he is managing when
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 14
he is supposed to be directing. He stated we are not managers of the City; we are the administrators; we
set policy; we do not dictate how it is administered.
Mayor Reeves brought up a Commissioner that does not come get his packet until the last day and
worries about our sister city next door. Commissioner Hill responded saying you are trying to deflect on
other issues. Commissioner Hill explained he has tremendous faith that the big stuff is getting done and
tends to not dig into the idea of a pump purchase or an electric motor purchase because he understands
the concept of a piggyback. He explained we have a manager who is willing to do whatever we ask him,
but we have to be reasonable; we have to let him manage; get out of his hair; stop reaching into the
departments individually and giving tasks and doing things that are not part of our role; trust that they are
getting done noting that if they do not get done adequately we will hear about it from the citizens. He
indicated he has listened to everything and does not see anything that would require this type of action.
He expressed his concerns about making changes to personnel at this level stating it would be the most
disruptive thing and you will spend most of your administration dealing with it. He stated he is going to
challenge everyone involved who spoke tonight, to educate themselves extensively about the process
moving forward so that you understand what we can and cannot do legally in the way we frame any
action because the last thing we need to do is get into another big battle. He explained there is a way to
make changes and a way to not make changes and we have to be careful. He does not believe a change is
needed and it worries him that it happened this way and it has a sense of orchestration to it. He believes
some of this is their fault and they need to go back to the employee and make the employee fit what we
want him to do. He believes a weekly meeting would solve most of it and believes they are more
frustrated with government than our manager. He explained he does not believe the workload is well
understood by this Commission. He spoke in support of improving going forward and then evaluating,
but stated if this was an action to try and bring us into another period of unrest, he does not have it in him
and cannot see how this City can survive that type of turmoil every election; it is counterproductive. He
believes it is much more efficient to try to fix it ourselves and hopes that is what they can do.
Mayor Reeves explained he respected Commissioner Hill's comments and agreed that he has the most
experience about firing and replacing people and he appreciated what he went through.
Commissioner Stinson addressed the importance of an emergency management plan for 14,000 people
and the responsibility of the City for it. He responded to a comment by Commissioner Hill and explained
that he did not manage, he asked questions and he asked for information. He reiterated the
communication problem with the City Manager and that when someone asks the City Manager if he has
spoken to Commissioner Stinson about something and he has not spoken to him, the answer should be
no, not yes, I have talked to everyone.
Commissioner Waters stated it was clarified that Mr. Van Liere said he had spoken with budget concerns
with everyone on the Commission, but one Commissioner and he had not spoken with Commissioner
Stinson. She recalled a comment made by Commissioner Harding that he had spoken to the City
Manager previously about budget concerns. She reported that the City Manager did ask her if she had
anything for the budget but they were already included. She expressed concern about this feeling as if it
is orchestrated and explained her reasons which included the City Attorney looking into the City
Manager's contract to determine whether it was properly executed and the Mayor and City Manager
having a heated discussion about his severance package. She believed it has the feel of multiple people
trying to execute an end goal, not working to solve problems. She gave Mayor Reeves credit for being
here all the time and for speaking with the City Manager on a regular basis and for reaching a point
where they work together. She explained she starting looking into this after hearing it from a citizen,
city employees and from the City Attorney. She explained that she and the City Manager have regularly-
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 15
scheduled meetings and they have been incredibly productive and supports Commissioner Hill's
statement that we should all move forward with those meetings. She stated the initiation of contact
certainly is not the end all and be all of contact. She believes having a regularly scheduled meeting and
making time every week to meet with the City Manager is something all of us can do to improve
productivity and communication in the City. She reported a time she had met with a department head
who had some legitimate issues with the City Manager so she went to Mr. Van Liere about them and not
only did he take the advice, but also that same employee said it has been a world of difference. She stated
she has had some really productive communications with Mr. Van Liere and believes there is room for
productive communication on many levels. She stated she would like to see us engage in more of that
kind of activity not laying out a trap for the City Manager and she described two scenarios which were
about the agenda and the Saltair meeting. She reiterated that communication is a two-way street and
working on communication does alleviate issues. Mayor Reeves responded to Commissioner Waters
concerns regarding the Saltair meeting. Mayor Reeves reported that since he does not get any actions by
verbal communications, he has decided to put things in writing.
Commissioner Harding responded to comments made about orchestration stating first of all he has been
dealing with emails in regards to the south end of Seminole Road from several different citizens for two
to three months now, that is what prompted him to do away with the elected officials email. Those emails
continued. He met with the City Manager and, in his opinion, he got an explanation that was not
satisfactory and he expressed that to the City Manager at that time. He stated that in the last two weeks
he has received numerous emails and met with several citizens and was prepared tonight to address his
dismay with a couple of issues, not all of them. He explained the list of items that he mentioned earlier
were all in the agenda and are all at the end of the Commission meeting. He explained some of the
concerns that he has been receiving either by email or face-to-face has ranged from transparency in the
City Staff, competency, to outright indifference to their issues. He commented about the Aquatic Drive
Project explaining his specific request was because of all of the concerns that were addressed during the
Courtesy of the Floor and he simply asked to get with the contractor and find out prior to the them
beginning to clear the land if there were any preparations made or preplanning in regards to the wildlife.
He addressed the comment about the budget being "our" budget stating how can he adequately prepare
when he gets the budget two days prior to the budget workshop and is told I was not going to pass this
out, but I was asked to so here it is. He indicated he would have liked to have been better prepared if it is
his budget. He explained he is not saying the City Manager has failed to answer anything that he has
asked; he is on the phone with him quite regularly with issues and there are a lot of issues that are taken
care of. He explained he was on the phone with him most of the day before the tropical storm and things
were done, but there are issues that have not been been done. He stated he is simply saying that he has
been in office for 9 months and he has yet to have any kind of sit down and conversation about what the
expectations are, what the directives are, any kind of performance feedback and now he is supposed to do
an annual evaluation. He believes if we had our feedback session, sometime during those 9 month,s
which is almost a year, maybe it would get a little easier and some of these issues could have been
resolved. He explained in regards to the comments about orchestration, his concerns and his comments
tonight were prompted from meetings with citizens who took their time to meet with him and took their
time to email him and he has been conversing with them by email.
Mayor Reeves asked for consensus to finish the one item the people have been waiting for and then come
back to this discussion. It was the consensus to move on to the item and come back to this discussion.
8. Miscellaneous Business (Discussion only)
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Pale 16
A. Request for a waiver as permitted by Section 24-46(d) to waive the prohibition of body
artists within the Commercial General zoning district as required by Section 24-111(b) at Saltair
Section 3, Lots 810 to 816 and 838 to 840 (aka 469 Atlantic Boulevard, Unit 11).
City Planner Derek Reeves presented a slide show as he explained the waiver request and the
recommended conditions which are: 1) That the business remain in compliance with Chapter 64E-19 of
the Florida Administrative Code; and 2) That the waiver is granted to the applicant only and shall not run
with the title to the property. He also explained that the action taken tonight is to get consensus to move
the item forward to a public hearing on September 12, 2016, noting that if this waiver is approved we will
also consider the approval as required under Section 20-59. City Attorney Durden explained a recent
decision made by the Federal Court finding that tattooing constitutes artistic expression which means it is
protected under the first amendment and as a result of that any regulation of that type of use must be
promoted and supported by substantial governmental interest and the court will review any kind of
regulation of these uses with strict scrutiny. It is a much higher degree of review by the Federal Court
than a normal typical decision by local government. She stated this decision was made in December of
2015 and was in fact by the court declared to be a case of first impression and what that means is that it
was the first time that the Eleventh Circuit has looked at the issue. She explained that given that decision,
she recommended that the Commission move this for public hearing at its next regular City Commission
meeting.
Commissioner Stinson brought up a conversation he had with Ms. Durden about prohibited things in our
Charter that could be construed as artistic expression. He agreed with the recommendation to move this
forward and believes there are a whole host of things coming behind this that we better get out in front of.
City Attorney Durden suggested having a round table discussion or a workshop regarding first
amendment issues. She offered the Commission a copy of the Eleventh Circuit case.
Mayor Reeves asked the applicant to come forward to answer questions.
Commissioner Hill asked applicant, Georgina Salzer, 109 Pine Street, if they would be willing to add a
third condition that there will be no smoking paraphernalia sold at this business. Ms. Salzer agreed to
doing that. Commissioner Hill asked Ms. Durden if that would be an acceptable addition if they agreed
to it. Ms. Durden confirmed that as long as the applicant voluntarily agrees she does not see that it is an
issue.
Commissioner Waters asked the applicant what their planned hours of operation are. Ms. Salzer stated
they will be closed on Tuesdays and Wednesdays; Mondays and Thursdays open 12-8, Fridays and
Saturdays 12-10 and Sundays 12-6. Commissioner Waters asked City Planner Derek Reeves if there are
any limitations in that district about hours of operation. City Planner Derek Reeves confirmed there is no
restriction on hours of operation on this type of business.
Commissioner Waters expressed late night hours being a concern for businesses with late night imbibed
individuals wanting to get a tattoo being disruptive or not a positive influence. She asked if there is any
objection to putting in a limitation about not operating after midnight on any night and if it would be
allowed.
City Planner Derek Reeves stated they do not plan to do tattoo, piercing only.
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 17
Ms. Salzer spoke to the imbibing, stating it is illegal to perform any of these services on someone who
has been drinking and we follow those rules very carefully. She confirmed that she has no problem with
putting in the limitation of midnight.
Consensus from the Commission was to move this item forward to September 12, 2016.
Commissioner Hill confirmed with Mayor Reeves that the language he requested would be brought back
as an additional condition.
Mayor Reeves apologized for the delay and stated we will go back to our discussion. Commissioner
Stinson requested that we go through items 8B, 8C and 9A because he believes 8B will answer questions
about coordination and some of the other comments that were made. Mayor Reeves asked for
clarification of his request. The decision was made to go back to the Consent Agenda.
Motion: Approve 4A and 4B as read
Moved by Hill, Seconded by Stinson
Roll Call Votes:
Aye: Stinson, Waters, Harding, Hill, Reeves
Motion Carried
5. Committee Reports
None.
6. Action on Resolutions
None.
7. Action on Ordinances
None.
Mayor Reeves explained that the moratorium ordinance did not make the newspaper because of a mistake
of the newspaper so it was pulled off the agenda. He asked the City Attorney, even though it was not
advertised in the paper, it was mentioned in our meeting that it would be scheduled for a public hearing
tonight, is he required to open a public hearing and just not close it because we did not take any action.
Ms. Durden stated, in this particular instance, no.
B. Commission Direct Reports Contract Approval Process. (Commissioner Stinson)
Commissioner Stinson explained how this issue came up stating this was brought to him by a group of
citizens that came and said this seems to be a scattered approach to how you approve contracts, in
particular the City Manager's contract had never been brought back to the City Commission for approval.
He explained his research and the request to the City Clerk for documents related to this contract
approval process. He explained there was question because the prior Commission discussed contracting
the City Manager; they directed the Mayor, the previous City Attorney and Mr. Van Liere to go out and
negotiate a contract based on certain guidelines and parameters the Commission gave them; the contract
was then executed and put into place; we had just gone through the process of contracting with Ms.
Durden and he was not here when Ms. Bartle's contract was approved, so he started doing research on
that. He explained the reason he put this on here was because every time they have done it, they have
done it different and he does not understand and does not feel it is right, noting they would not have let
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 18
him go negotiate a contract with Ms. Durden by himself. You would have wanted it to come back in front
of you, you would have wanted to vote on it because we are the voice of the people and what he is trying
to say is we come up with a process so that does not happen again so the entire commission has an
opportunity to weigh in on the contract before it is executed. He stated the reason it was on the agenda
on the 8th and then moved was because Ms. Durden was on vacation and he wanted to make sure what he
was looking at was correct and thanked Ms. Durden for looking into it for him. He asked Mayor Reeves
to allow Ms. Durden to elaborate on her research about the contract and why it is valid so that our
citizens can hear why and they can put that to rest.
City Attorney Durden explained she was asked to review a number of different minutes starting in
October and November of 2013 and additional set of minutes over a course of several special called
Commission meetings toward the end of 2014; on November 9, 2014, the Commission at that time
authorized the City Attorney to negotiate a contract with input from the Commission and based upon a
template contract that was from an association that deals with city managers, which is a standard template
that they suggest local governments to utilize for drafting contracts for city managers; in parcel of that
decision made on November 9, 2014 the Commission voted to authorize the Mayor to execute the
contract. She further explained there was no requirement for it to come back to the City Commission at
any time. She reported she reviewed the actual agreement in relation to the template and she talked to
several other lawyers in her office to get their opinion also, it was her opinion, that the difference is
between the negotiated contract and the template are not substantive. She explained there are some
differences, but in some cases or a lot of those cases they actually favor the City. She explained there
were other questions that arose once she did her research such as whether or not the signature was
appropriate. She explained that the signature can be an X, if that is the normal mark, then that is the
normal mark, so clearly the document itself was appropriately executed. She explained another question
was whether or not Mr. Van Liere met the qualifications that were set out in the Charter which she found
that there was a written opinion from that City Attorney which supports that Mr. Van Liere did met the
requirements of the Charter. She added that sometime after the contract was executed, the City
Commission did in fact change the Charter provisions and basically ratified the thinking that had gone
into finding that Mr. Van Liere did in fact meet the requirements set out in the Charter. She reported she
does believe that the contract is valid and enforceable.
Commissioner Stinson stated he had a conversation with Ms. Durden about his motives for this and what
he hoped to accomplish and asked Ms. Durden to elaborate on this if she would. Ms. Durden explained
her understanding was that he had had several citizens ask about this issue and that was mostly that he
wanted to be sure one way or the other what her opinion was about the contract and to be sure that it was,
in her opinion, valid and enforceable and that was where the impetus came from for Commissioner
Stinson's request to me.
Commissioner Stinson explained the reason he brought this is to see if the Commission wants a recipe or
do we want to freestyle this every time it comes up.
Commissioner Hill stated there is an advantage to both ways going forward for any Commission that has
to wrestle with this issue. He explained the last Commission was struck with a minor detail in language
that could have gone either way on the qualifications, but were offered an opportunity to take a very
knowledgeable long-term employee with an extensive understanding and pretty engaged knowledge of
all parts of the City because of his budget background, his finance background and unique characteristics
that would solve one of our big issues which was a very serious morale problem internally in
employment -based issues that we dealt with. He commented on the template not being the perfect
answer and explained the need for flexibility. He spoke about the process the Commission went through
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 19
to hire the City Manager and highlighted the difficulty they had with finding a good fit and meeting
restrictive requirements given by a previous Commission with an agenda. He stated he likes the idea of
opening the option up as a general consensus, long-term solution for any Commission going forward. He
added having our hands tied on some pretty super specific issues was not the best solution for the citizens
so he kind of agrees with where this may be going.
Commissioner Waters agreed there are both benefits and drawbacks to limiting flexibility in the search
process, but she stated she is disinclined to tie future Commission's hands by limiting it. She stated
contract negotiations are just that, negotiations and she understands setting a template for a process, but
she thinks that sometimes an organic process really can benefit the City and tying future Commissioner's
hands at this time is not something that particularly appeals to her. She stated in having brought this item
forward as a way of touching on the lack of coordination, she would like to address it in that sense as
well. She stated, in discussions with ethics, it is very clear that using citizens as a go between is
unethical, but difficult to track and the fact that things are brought to us from citizens is sometimes
absolutely true, but also a means of coordination. She added that she is not going to say this particularly
answers, especially when some of our citizens are bringing different pieces to different commissioners, it
actually adds to the feeling of coordination in this area.
Mayor Reeves explained he had asked for a copy of the City Clerk's contract and the City Manager's
contract and did not request the City Attorney's contract since they had already discussed it. He also
explained he instructed HR to notify the City Manager that he did get a copy of that and believes he was
very open about directing asking for those.
Commissioner Stinson explained that when he referenced a recipe, he was not meaning a recipe to define
qualifications or experience or years in your role. He explained he would like to see these contracts
renew every two years, on the off cycle of an election year and that the contracts are not negotiated by
just one elected official. He stated that Commissioner Waters' comment was accusatory, and finds it
offensive and thinks it deserves an apology. He stated he has not spoken with anyone with the exception
of our City Attorney about that particular issue, he did not communicate and has specifically stayed away
from communicating with our residents about that and he is offended that she would make that
insinuation. He reminded the Commission that they asked him to do this in public, they did not trust it
being done one-on-one and if the issues were that big, do it in here. He stated he did and he is being
crucified for it.
Commissioner Waters apologized that Commissioner Stinson feels offended. She believes it is valid to
bring up concerns that all of us have. She explained it was brought up in such a way that it was a hand
grenade lobbed with a specific agenda to this Commission. She explained Commissioner Stinson should
have brought it up to the Commission sooner in order to have a productive conversation that they could
have added to and made specific requests which she believed is what the Commission asked of Mayor
Reeves. She spoke about addressing concerns in our regular manner when they are small concerns and
doing something productive, not wait until you make a case to lob a grenade and end someone's career
which is a big deal that has been done twice in less than nine months. She explained it has not been a
concerted effort and there has been no consensus building. She explained she questions what the goal was
if the goal was not to be productive. She reiterated the reasons she had concerns and explained that she
did not mean to make him feel offended, but does believe the way this is happening is less productive
than it could have been and brings into question why it happened only at this point.
Commissioner Stinson explained he has raised these issues in City Commission meetings over and over,
has asked about the same things over and over and over, and has spoken to the City Manager about these
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 20
things individually until it boiled up to this point. He explained he has tried to respect what the
Commission asked him to do and that he did it the way he was asked to. He stated he is sorry it feels
concerted to you. He stated he had concerns, they are not being addressed, things are not being resolved,
he brought it to you and this was the result.
Commissioner Waters and Commissioner Stinson reiterated comments brought up earlier and debated the
issues. During the debate, Commissioner Waters suggested developing a system for a better way to
follow up on requests which is something she will be putting in the evaluation.
Commissioner Hill commented on Commissioner Stinson's intentions. He explained to Commissioner
Stinson that he has to make sure he is happy because they have to move forward and work together. He
stated that he listened very carefully to every complaint by every Commissioner and he agrees with some
of them and is willing to say there is room for improvement everywhere, but he also believes that half of
that improvement is on this side of the dais and not in the City Manager's lap. He explained the
Commission is not doing a great job; we are not doing what we are supposed to do because we are all
trying to do what the City Manager is supposed to do and that is probably where it started down the
wrong track. He commented that if he felt he had an employee that was either incapable or not willing,
then he would be 100% with him or anyone else with the same feeling. He believes they need to establish
a regular chain of communication and look really hard at your concerns after that happens because
everything he saw on the list has more to do with communication than function. He also suggested asking
ourselves what we are loading our staff up with. He expressed concern that any one of us can give hours
to the City Attorney to do anything and suggested all Commissioners having a bank with usable time.
He stated we also should not ask the City Manager for information that is not part of what we are
supposed to be doing which is to set policy. He explained that he does not think this employee has done
anything specifically that warrants action other than corrective action and he agrees that there might be a
need for that. He reiterated that if Commissioner Stinson is not happy, then they have to address that but
we have to give him the credit to address it in some way. He explained that the City Manager has always
been responsive to everything he has ever asked which is probably what makes him pretty confident that
he is capable. Commissioner Hill believes the Commission is not providing the City Manager with what
he needs. He explained that one of the things we have to do as a Commission is we have to go forward
from this stressful night. He asked Commissioner Stinson if the intention was not to fire him, is there any
room to work with him.
Commissioner Stinson explained he has these concerns; believes those concerns are very valid; does not
think the things that he thinks are important are getting worked on; and does not think the things that the
citizens he represents want to be done are being done. He stated he will ask a question but does not want
an answer tonight. He asked the Commission what they would have preferred him do. He reiterated how
important these things are to him and that he is getting nothing done and it is frustrating. He answered
Commissioner Hill that he is obviously the only one that has these kind of concerns; he is willing to work
on it; he is willing to try to make it better; he wants them to tell him what their expectations are of him so
that he can do what they expect of him when he has a concern instead of the nuclear option of dropping a
bomb.
Commissioner Hill explained that the tabletop exercises for emergency management is pointless to him
and he explained why. He believes the part that is missing is that it is not disseminated out and explained
why it is an easy fix. He explained each one of the Commissioners individually have expectations of
what this job does and his expectations are very different because he is looking at different issues as
higher priority. He commented on everyone having frustrations because this job does not move fast and
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 21
cautioned the Commission about getting into a long disruptive employee swapping scenario where we
lose all of our department heads cause they are somehow attached to system.
Mayor Reeves addressed Commissioner Hill's comments about overworking staff. He explained that
they are not talking about large projects stating Seminole Road has not been completed in two years and
does not know if it will be completed under their term. He explained he believes what they are talking
about is the opportunity for the City Manager to start communicating and managing and should walk out
of here tonight asking himself what he has to do better to be a better communicator to the Commission
and the citizens of Atlantic Beach. He mentioned having a big employee turnover of people hired by the
City Manager and the software that cannot run a simple report. He explained he is still open to a
roundtable discussion to continue this topic and work it out.
Commissioner Hill believes the roundtable meeting is a good idea. He explained his thoughts on the
Seminole Road project and how the City Manager recognized that the people involved in design and
install botched a major project. He stated it deserves a relook. He explained the importance of putting
fresh eyes on it and believes it will move forward organically.
Mayor Reeves asked Commissioner Hill if he has ever spoken to the City Manager about his concern
from 8 months ago to revamp the permitting department because they were not doing anything right.
Commissioner Hill answered that he believes it is underway and he is paying attention. Commissioner
Hill and Mayor Reeves debated the subject of staffing. Mayor Reeves explained a recommendation he
had made to the City Manager about contracting the Fire Inspector at Neptune Beach for $30 instead of
paying Jacksonville $50 and the response he was given was that we are not in business to make money.
Mayor Reeves explained that the $20 savings should be passed on to the citizens.
Commissioner Waters addressed Commissioner Stinson's question about how something like this should
come before the Commission and reiterated what she said before stating if we have deep and important
concerns, they should be brought to the Commission when they have workable solution, not when we
have a pile of deep concerns that have a solution that is a nuclear option. She explained that the objection
to what happened to our City Attorney was that a nuclear option was instituted without input from the
entire Commission; however, we are in a situation again where a nuclear option is brought to us. She
gave an example of her idea of handling concerns by expressing the concern, bringing a solution and
asking for consensus among the Commission for a working solution. She reiterated her concerns that
Commissioner Stinson is using the nuclear option instead of doing something about it when there was a
failure and breakdown in communication. She pointed out that employees feel demoralized and are
wondering when they are next. She reiterated the need for finding a workable solution but needs
Commissioner Stinson to say that they are right, that he is frustrated, he was angry , he went with the
nuclear option, but he can see a path forward and we can work on this. She expressed her support for a
roundtable discussion, getting goals, getting expectations and setting a process for answering concerns.
Mayor Reeves asked Commissioner Waters that if we had a roundtable and moved this discussion on that
if the issue is not cleared up, you would support moving forward with some changes if we offer solutions
and those solutions are not taken advantage of.
Commissioner Waters explained that if we as a Commission move it forward, we provide solutions, we
have a measurement/metric that is agreed on for assessing whether or not those solutions are fulfilled and
they are not met, she can move forward any direction.
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 22
Commissioner Hill believes that if we have an employee that a number of us have a problem with and we
do not think that employee is working to resolve the issue, any one of the Commissioners would come to
the conclusion that Commissioner Stinson appears to already be at. He stated he 100% does not see the
volume of problems; he sees the individual issues brought, but he also understands the issues and he
agrees some of them needs to be worked on. He reiterated his concern about having a destructive process.
Mayor suggested that the City Clerk check with everyone to see when would be a good day to do a
roundtable to continue this.
Commissioner Harding believes they need to get into discussing the evaluations. He explained that he
came up with solutions which are to improve communication, have feedback sessions so the employee
knows where they stand during the year, and do not wait until the evaluation period to sit down with
them, instead have ongoing communication. He understands there may be issues from the
Commissioners but believes we need to improve communication going both ways. He also believes there
should be timeframes involved in responses and that does not go just for responses to citizens, it goes to
responses to the Commissioners as well, stating if someone calls him and it is important enough to them
to call me, it is important enough to him to contact the staff and it should be important enough to staff to
get back with me and let me know what they found out. He reiterated the need for feedback and open
lines of communication both ways.
Commissioner Stinson commented on Commissioner Waters' question. He explained there is a path
forward, but it has to include being heard and he has to be able to feel like he is making a difference and
accomplishing something here noting why else would he be here. He reiterated there is a path forward for
him. He believes he does an excellent job communicating by emailing a lot and calling when he had
questions and he is willing to bear half the burden of that communication issue, but only half. He
explained he needs the Commission to trust him, because when they told him not to do this in private he
took that very serious and he needs their trust. Commissioner Stinson and Commissioner Waters debated
the topic of trust and how this item was brought up. Commissioner Stinson reiterated that he has been
talking to the City Manager about his requests over and over and he has not just let this set and fester. He
reiterated there is a path forward noting he does not know how the City Manager feels, but it has to
improve for him.
Mayor Reeves explained it is time to hear from the City Manager.
City Manager Van Liere commented about this being five hours of the most fun he has had in his life.
He explained he wrote down, as fast as he could write, the laundry list of issues that Commissioner
Stinson went through. He believes he has an answer to or rebuttal for just about all of them that he does
not want to go through tonight. He commented on when Mayor Reeves asked him why he wanted to do
this job explaining he sat in finance for 15 years and when the opportunity came up to be able to actually
put some of my ideas that he has been thinking about for years into helping the City to be a better place,
that is what he wanted to do. He explained he is about building a police station, renovating City Hall and
the park, building kayak launches, roads out to Dutton Island, annexing property, and settling lawsuits
which are the kinds of things that excited him when he took the job to come here to do. He believed that
through the staff, they have accomplished a lot of things since he has been the City Manager and he
started out doing the Finance Director's job and the City Manager's job for a year while the prior
Commission decided if he was going to be the City Manager. He explained that after that year he
decided to take that position and believes through the budget process, we have accomplished a lot and
that part of the problem with this Commission is they are not working on their budget, they are trying to
finish the prior Commission's project list. He explained, next month they will approve their first budget
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 23
where you will get to fund the things that you want to do. He reminded them that he did say in previous
Commission meetings that if any of you have anything you would like to see in the budget, please get
with me. He explained he and the Mayor meet on a regular basis and he knew what was most important
to him and he tried to put that in the budget the best way he could. He mentioned giving Commissioner
Waters and Commissioner Harding the opportunity to put anything in the budget. He explained he did
not sit down and have a budget meeting with them, but he will meet with any of them anytime as long as
it takes to talk things through even if it is 10:00 p.m. at night which he has done and he will continue to
do. He added whether it is in his office on Saturday or Sunday or in the evenings, before or after
meetings, it does not matter; he has no end to the amount of time that he will devote to discussing any
issues they have until they are thoroughly beat into the ground. He referred to having meetings in the
conference room looking at surveys of property trying to decide what curbs should disappear or fire
hydrants are in the way and try to fix the 10th Street problem which is going to take a long time. He
explained none of these issues were in this year's funding plan to achieve, but with the police building
under construction, conference room torn up, no code enforcement officer to answer the daily complaints
about grass growing over the sidewalk and pulling people off of mowing medians to come fix what is in
front of one resident's house, that is what staff is doing for the Commission and believes they are
probably doing more work now than they have ever done in the history of the City. He believed they are
working hard and to come and sit and listen to the Commission take shots at him for all of the things that
they say are not being done, he apologizes to staff if they are feeling any of this pain themselves because
he believes they are trying really hard to keep up with the huge workload with a lot of holes in the
operation and a lot of missing pieces. He believed one of the most important topics this year is what to do
with our land development regulations and he does not have a community development director. He
added we have a CRA going on and he is not there; he was the department head for the building
department for the report that they want and does not have a report until he can get a report. He
explained he had conversations with Commissioners about almost all of these issues that came up tonight
noting we talk about them, give explanation, and appear to be okay with them and then a month or two
later here we are talking about them as if we never discussed why things are the way they are. He stated if
you are not going to be sincere about listening to what is going on in this City, if you just want to drive
by, take your shots, he can take them. He indicated he can sit here and take anything that they will throw
at him; he won't enjoy it and does not believe staff appreciates watching this or being a part of all of this,
but if we are going to go forward and work together about communication, he lives in his office and is
always there and has somebody that answers the phone for him too so there is rarely a missed phone call.
He mentioned having a cell phone and texts from Commissioner Stinson about him not being able to
meet. He stated be sincere if you want it to work; he will sit and listen and communicate as much as they
care to and he has probably never asked anyone to leave my presence because he was done with them; he
takes it to the end way too much. He addressed the budget workshop explaining that the reason they did
not get the information in advance was because they are new, except for Commissioner Hill, and they
have not seen the document before and knows that they would take the document to their friends and start
talking about it and not understand how the funding is put together. He explained we have two budget
workshops and two more public hearings and is available to discuss it any time after the time he
delivered it and wanted to give a presentation to be able to explain how the thing was laid out so they
would not get confused right off the bat. He believed that is not uncommon, but everybody wants to have
it before the other person and he could not do it that way; he needed to do a presentation to explain what
was in the budget and from that point forward ask as many questions as you like; add anything to it you
would like; it is your budget. He explained that if they have a project, ask him how to fund it and he will
try to get it in, but he believes they do not have any ideas. He explained the budget is a basic service level
budget with some ongoing issues and what we heard this year was drainage, so it is loaded up with
drainage projects. He explained they have some opportunities with the millage rate and a community
development CRA funding if you like, but other than that he did not get any projects that the Mayor
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 24
wanted to have done; code review and drainage is what he heard this year. He mentioned finishing the
police station and rebudgeting Seminole Road and the option that they can stop the project if they do not
want to do it. He stated he enjoyed this job for a couple of years and if we are not going to be able to
have trust and communication and go forward, then, you have all read his contract, take a vote, that is
what it comes down to; otherwise, he would appreciate working with him and being sincere about getting
stuff accomplished because he does not want to be coming to work every day and his family wondering
every day if he is going to have a job. He added it is not very motivating and it definitely does not inspire
grand things when you are constantly looking over your shoulder. He stated, so either get on about your
business and do something about it or decide that we are going to go forward and work it out. He
believes you have to understand the limitations of this small city and this small city staff when we miss a
person, things do not get done, there is not a backup, at almost all of our positions we are one deep,
maybe two. He explained that if he has to take an employee and move them to another office and give
them some additional duties, that is his business, not yours. He further explained, if he has problems
with my building department in getting reports out, that is his problem to deal with, he should not be
asked about certain employees that maybe should not be around anymore and have to constantly be
worrying about my staffing and who is going to be talking about what person is going to be next
including him. He explained his staff is not stupid, they watch these videos and they see what is going on
and he spends a lot of time having to explain why things are the way they are and why they are treated
they way they are treated. He expressed that if you want a well-functioning city government then you
ought to respect the staff, respect him and respect that they can do a job and have been doing a job. He
explained the Commission is new and are just taking these jobs for the first time and it is as if you came
here knowing everything about what we do and assuming so many things that we have to then back up
the train and have to explain. He reiterated that he is willing to work and go forward and listen and try to
solve problems stating they are not all solvable with the resources that we have and the timeframe that
you would like. He wished this could be better and apologized for his part in that. He explained he does
have a little bit of pride and this is kind of hard to take with all the work that he has done and his staff has
done to get us where we are right now. He reiterated he is willing to work if the Commission is.
Mayor Reeves addressed Mr. Van Liere's comments and explained he appreciated his comments but was
a little disappointed that he started out mentioning he wasted five hours that he would never get back and
he never heard him say that he understood and heard our frustrations and were willing to work with us.
He believes all of the Commissioners said that they will work with you, but you have got to work with us
and whether he likes it or not, he has to respect each of the Commissioner in a different way because they
all have different personalities. He explained he is a little uncomfortable about the City Manager
challenging a vote, but believes he will leave here and that he has the message that the Commission
wants the citizens to get the answers and believes the City Manager is capable of doing it if he wants to,
but if he does not want to, then it is a different situation.
Commissioner Hill responded to the City Manager's comments stating he cannot think of a better reason
to keep him, because a professional city manager would have done what you asked him to do just now
and then he would have applied tomorrow for another job. He believed this city manager is dedicated to
this City and he wants him to do his job and for the Commission to get out of his way. He asked the
Commission to get out of the City Manager's way and let him manage if he decides to reengage. He
reiterated concerns about how the Commission has crossed the line between managers and policy makers.
He explained how changes could be made if the job does not get done and he hopes Mr. Van Liere
reengages.
Commissioner Waters apologized to Commissioner Stinson about an incorrect statement she made
earlier about the timing of the Cloister. She believed what she heard from Mr. Van Liere's response was
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 25
a combination of an incredibly human and incredibly dedicated response to this City. She also believed
he wants to do this job and he sat in front of his staff for five hours and took a beating that she does not
know any of us would handle so gracefully. She indicated that she heard in Mr. Van Liere's response a
vision and a desire to move forward and his dedication to the City and would like for people to put
themselves in his shoes of taking a beating in front of his subordinates for five hours and think how they
might respond before anybody gives him a hard time again. She believes there is a way to move forward
and to move forward as a Commission too. She explained how Commissioner Stinson asked her for trust
and she believes that trust was in place. She explained sunshine laws do prevent the Commission from
reaching out to each other and limits communications and would have liked to have reached out but there
was no way to do it. She requested that when a Commissioner is frustrated again and again, bring a
solution forward and build consensus and she gave an example. She spoke about the need to develop a
vision, align staff with a vision and inspire them to achieve that vision and to build trust.
She suggested ways to communicate and rebuild trust and hoped Commissioner Stinson will accept her
solutions as a form of apology because she does respect him and wants to work with him and put the
negative feelings aside. She believes the Commission should set a good example for all the employees
and for the City Manager and Commission going forward.
C. Discussion on a Tree/Beautification Committee (Mayor Reeves)
Mayor Reeves explained to Commissioner Hill that since he was absent at the last meeting and had some
interest in this he asked that it be put back on the agenda. Mayor Reeves explained he is not interested in
a tree board but he is interested in a tree committee.
Commissioner Hill explained that the goal is to protect the tree canopy in a way that is responsible and
legal and to better frame the responsibilities. He expressed the need to workshop it and believes there are
a lot of engaged citizens on this topic. He stated he is open to ideas.
Commissioner Waters explained she did go out and talk to people and there is support and she still has
people she would like to reach out to. She pointed out that one of the reasons the tree board went away is
because it put citizens against citizens and believes the board should serve an advisory role and set
policy that comes to us for when trees can and cannot be cut down, but employees should be the bad
guys. She stated we support them and we work together but we should not put neighbors against
neighbors. She explained it should be an employee that says this is the way the Code is written and this
is the enforcement and the board should have an advisory capacity to that employee. She believes a
workshop is a great way to discuss it and solicit citizen input before that workshop so we have something
to come together and make decisions with. Mayor Reeves agreed we need to do that and move forward
and asked for a consensus.
There was consensus to move it forward and put it on the agenda to discuss.
Commissioner Stinson believed there needs to be a discussion to consider how we will staff this
committee because we have a tough time filling the other boards now.
9. City Manager
A. City Manager's Report.
90 -Day Calendar (September 2016 through November 2016).
Reported that the CRA/TAC report is ready to be presented and should be done in a workshop
and suggested September 26, 2016, ahead of the Commission meeting unless they need more
time. Mayor Reeves suggested that each Commissioner read the draft that was sent to them
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 26
because this week we are talking about the budget and we need to make a decision about the
50,000. After a brief discussion, the the decision was made to schedule a workshop on
September 26, 2016 before the regular meeting.
Asked Chief Deal to speak about Web.com. Chief Deal explained the Web.com event scheduled
at the Town Center on October 3`d from 5:00 P.M. to 9:00 P.M. and the plans for road closures
and alcohol sales. Mayor Reeves also spoke about the event and explained the profits are going to
charity and to the Town Center. Commissioner Hill expressed concerns about the three additional
road closures beyond what is normally closed and explained he is not in favor of it. Chief Deal
answered questions.
Reported that Public Works Director Don Jacobovitz has a map of the drainage system for anyone
who would like to view it.
Reminded everyone about the Safe Routes to School -Town Hall meeting this weekend at 10:00
and commented that the video of the route is hard to follow.
Reported the City Attorney put together a draft Sea Turtle Ordinance and will be put on the
agenda soon.
Announced that Carlene Matthews celebrated 40 years of service and expressed his appreciation.
10. Reports and/or requests from City Commissioners and City Attorney
City Clerk Bartle
Thanked the Commission for her clock and pin and for recognizing her service.
City Attorney Durden
Gave an update on Gate stating the judge held a four-hour hearing on Friday, August 12, 2016 on
the temporary injunction. The judge asked for proposed orders on the temporary injunction. Those
were due on Friday so she would expect we will have a decision on that during the course of this
week. For clarity, you may have seen the fences and the construction during the course of the
hearing on the temporary injunction, Ms. West changed her request for injunction from the
demolition to future construction, so that is why you are seeing the demolition proceeding. As
soon as she hears about an order, she will let us know.
Explained that she left a yellow brochure published by the First Amendment which she thought
would be handy to have. She indicated she also purchased those for the Community Development
Board and the Code Enforcement Board and provided copies to Nelson, Donna, Russell, Derek
and Dayna.
Reported she provided language to Nelson last week that has to be now included in all contracts
or amendments to contracts that is being required by the state legislature in regards to public
records. It basically requires a vendor or any person you enter into a contract with to comply with
public records law.
Informed that she has about 10 copies of the case regarding tattooing and piercing if you are
interested.
Reported the City did receive a subpoena on Friday demanding a representative from the building
department go to a deposition with documents in regards to a construction case that no one is
familiar with. Mr. Arlington did tell her today that he is familiar with these buildings. They are
townhomes built at Ahern behind Al's Pizza about 15 years ago. She indicated she will be
reaching out to the attorney who issued the subpoena to try to get a little more information. We
are not a party to the lawsuit so she is expecting that what the issue is is that they want to know
about the building permits that were issued 15 years ago. She stated she will report back to the
Commission when she knows a little bit more.
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 27
Commissioner Waters
Thanked Donna for her service to the city noting she has spent a number of years with the City, is
a local girl, went to a local high school and has done a lot of work working her way up at the City.
She stated it is great to see her daughter starting with the City too and it does say something about
this being an environment where people can thrive. She thanked Donna for being that example.
Commissioner Harding
Thanked Donna for her service.
Reported he received a couple of phone calls about vandalism and fires being lit in the Tideviews
and Bennett's Landing area and would like to request some additional patrols in that area as well
as look into possible expansion of our security surveillance cameras in that area.
Reported he received an email about some trash in the Tideviews Pier areas down towards the end
of the docks and requested it be looked into if it is something that can be looked at from the
docks.
Commissioner Hill
Thanked Donna for her service to the City and her commitment to the Community.
Looks forward to getting the entire team back to firing on all cylinders and feels confident it can
be done. He stated he hopes he did not offend anyone with his bluntness and looks forward to
moving forward.
Spoke about safety at Howell Park and requested visual alleys into the park and in different areas
to make some of those paths more exposed.. He stated he understands if there is no consensus, but
it is in his district and his neighbors are talking about it and we have had several crime instances
that you can ask the Chief about.
Commissioner Stinson
Thanked and Congratulated Donna for her 25 years of service and indicated he really enjoys
working with her.
Apologized to his team stating he thought he was doing what you wanted and in the way you
wanted and is sorry that he drug you into this in a way that was what they see as the wrong path.
Stated he accepted Commissioner Waters' challenge and will work on that and bring that back
just like she described.
Referred to City Staff Mr. Reeves, Mr. Jacobovitz, and Chief Deal stating, if his comments have
made them think he has anything, but the utmost confidence in them he apologizes. He explained
that was not his intent. He believes we have a wonderful staff and has a lot of confidence in them
and his frustrations lied elsewhere so he is very sorry if it made them feel like he did not have
confidence in them.
Commented to the people stating he thinks he is trying to do the work that you want him to do
and the work you tell him you want done. He explained he listens very closely to you and it is
very important to him and he hopes it is important to the people of the City.
Commented to Mr. Van Liere that he is going to work through this and he is sincere and really
wants to do good things for this City. He stated he looks forward to moving past this, and
apologized to him stating he realizes this was a very difficult thing today. He stated he is not
going to make excuses; he made his bed he will lie in it.
Mayor Reeves
Stated he would like to have a Roundtable luncheon one day.
August 22, 2016 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING Page 28
Explained the Johnson property pricing is tremendously lower and believes this could be a good
opportunity for boat ramps and another park for our City and they should talk about it.
Reported he attended the Florida League of Cities and encouraged each of the Commissioners to
go next year because there are a lot of training sessions. He explained that our City Attorney was
there and she serves on one of the Committees. He stated it was a great opportunity and found
out a lot of things. He mentioned a brochure he picked up and gave to the City Manager
pertaining to an app.
Explained a brochure he had received regarding a Seminar on Dealing with Difficult People.
Adjournment
There being no further discussion, Mayor Reeves declared the meeting adjourned at 12:30 a.m.
ATTEST:
Donna L. Bartle, CMC
City Clerk
Mitchell E. Reeves
Mayor/Presiding Officer