07-08-82 v • --y----4
MINUTES OF
COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE
OF THE
CITY OF ATLANTIC BEACH
ZONING WORKSHOP
JULY 8, 1982
6:30 PM
PRESENT: Robert B. Persons, Mayor
Preben Johansen, Commissioner
William Gulliford, Commissioner
Catherine Van Ness, Commissioner
Alan Jensen, Commissioner
AND: A. William Moss, City Manager
Mary L. Dombrowski, Recording Secretary
AND: Mrs. Ann Bledsoe
Mr. Stephen Bledsoe
Mrs. Dorothy Kerber
Mr. Ronald L. Crofton
Mr. Fred Lewis
Mr. Dutton
Mr. Ken Amber
PURPOSE: Review of Proposed Zoning Ordinance
Commissioner Van Ness, acting as the senior member of the Commission, called the
meeting to order at 6:44 PM. Mayor Persons and Commissioner Jensen, Mayor Pro
Tem, arrived late. Commissioner Van Ness requested Commissioner Gullifords' report
on his meeting Saturday with the Saltair residents. Commissioner Gulliford replied
that residents had requested two lots on the northwest side of the north end of
Poinsettia retain the old zoning (i.e. single family - RS-2) , rather than duplex (RG-1)
as proposed under the new zoning. The residents also requested that the twelve (12)
lots between Pine Street and Magnolia Street, proposed as duplex zoning, revert to the
single family zone as they had been zoned. After a general discussion, the motion was
made by Commissioner Gulliford to redraw the duplex zone in the Saltair subdivision to
conform with the old boundry line, thereby reducing the number of duplex lots as pro-
posed, and maintaining the existing conformation of the neighborhood. The motion was
seconded by Commissioner Johansen and passed unanimously.
The chair recognized Mrs. Ann Bledsoe, owner of undeveloped property south of Cornell
Lane and east of the Atlantic Garden Apartments. Mrs. Bledsoe requested a zoning change
for her property from the proposed RS-2 (single family) to a higher density zoning such
as RG-2 or 3. Mrs. Bledsoe's request was based on the nature of the developments ad-
jacent to her property: the Atlantic Garden Apartments to the west and commercial develop-
ments to the south. She further cited the impracticality of single family residences
abutting these types of developments. After a lengthy discussion of the request, and
consideration of the most appropriate zoning designation to assign these properties
(i.e. desirable density) , Commissioner Van Mess requested a suggestion, in the form of
a motion, to present to the Commission Monday night. The commission felt that Mrs.
Bledsoe's request had merit, therefore, Commissioner Jensen made the motion to change
the zoning designation to RG-2, which Commissioner Gulliford seconded. The motion was
approved unanimously. The borders of this new RG-2 zone are as follows; west of the
Aquatic East property; north of the commercial zone which fronts Atlantic Blvd. ; east
of the Atlantic Garden Apartments; and south of Cornell Lane/rear lot lines of those
properties on the south side of Saratoga Circle South.
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The chair then recognized Mr. Ronald L. Crofton, a developer proposing 130 units
(7.5 units per acre) of patio homes to be located just north of the Aquatic East
Club. Commissioner Van Ness informed the commission that this property has a pro-
posed zoning designation of RG-2, which is consistant since Mr. Crofton's parcel abuts
the Canterbury Court Apartments. The Mayor clarified with Mr. Crofton that the proposed
zoning presented no problems. Mr. Crofton assured the Mayor that RG-2 is no problem,
however, if the commission desired a PUD for this development, his staff would be in-
structed to submit a PUD. Commissioner Johansen replied that while he appreciated Mr.
Crofton's attitude, he felt a PUD was more restrictive and afforded the commission more
control since the entire project must be submitted for consideration. Commissioner
Gulliford demurred, remarking that the whole reason for this (zoning) is to eliminate
a certain amount of individual evaluation. If the criteria is met as set forth by the
proposed zoning, an individual can do whatever he wants. Commissioner Gulliford didn't
feel strongly about PUD, stating that the commission probably was trying to get away
from it to some degree. Commissioner Van Ness reiterated that Mr. Crofton's development
would conform with proposed zoning requirements. Mr. Moss confirmed that should Mr.
Crofton not bring his project in as a PUD, commission control would be lost. The
only controls would be density and construction requirements under the building codes.
There would be no control on quality although Mr. Moss felt that the development could
be effectively controlled, administratively, to conform compatibly with the area.
Commissioner Gulliford remarked that Mr. Crofton was kind enough to preview his plans
for the commission, when he could have waited until the proposed zoning passed and
proceeded with his plans under the RG-2 zone. Mr. Crofton shouldn't be singled out
because he came forward with his plans at this particular time. The Mayor responded
that, under the current zoning law (proposed) , Mr. Crofton would have to go PUD anyway.
A general discussion took place regarding proposed developments under PUD or RG-2.
Commissioner Jensen remarked that under the old zoning, three or more units must apply
for a PUD, with no restrictions of the existing zone. He suggested that the commission
may want to add this to the proposed zoning ordinance. Commissioner Van Ness clarified
the land area requirement under the proposed zoning ordinance was two (2) acres. Mr.
Moss stated that Mr. Crofton would be subdividing the land, therefore the commission
would have control over any subdivision. A lengthly discussion ensued regarding the
density and lot area requirements under the proposed zoning (RG-2) , the intent to avoid
future PUD's on smaller lots, Mr. Croftons' proposed tennis courts and parks and comm-
ission control to ensure compliance for these items, streets and ingress/egress patterns.
Commissioner Gulliford remarked that rather than belabor this matter all night, he
suggested that this discussion had brought up a general point as to whether or not the
commission wants to have the right to refuse, through a PUD and its' requirements, tracts
like this in the future with respect to this type zoning. This would have to be de-
termined Monday night (July 12, 1982) and researched as to what zoning determination
would affect that specific project. The commission noted this subject for further
discussion Monday night.
The chair then recognized Mr. Fred Lewis, whose main concern was that commercial property
east of Mayport Road and just north of Plaza Drive, known as the M & L Shopping Center.
Mr. Lewis felt that the proposed zoning (CL) was inappropriate and incompatible for the
current usage. The past zoning (BB) allowed any business, except junk yards, and the
proposed zoning limits that usage. Commissioner Van Ness stressed that that particular
area (shopping center) abuts a residential area which did not lend itself to a "bar"
type situation. Commissioner Gulliford remarked that the same situation occurs of
Atlantic Blvd. & Royal Palms Drive, abutting an RS-1 district to the north. Commissioner
Van Ness remarked that is not precisely correct, clarifing the property off Cavalla Road
is zoned RG-2, which acts as a buffer zone. Commissioner Gulliford felt that the RG-2
zoning was in response to existing development. Commissioner Van Ness remarked that the
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JULY 8, 1982
board had tried to avoid that. Mr. Lewis interjected that the previous zoning would
be compatible with Commercial Intensive (CI) . Under the present proposed zoning, Mr.
Lewis would not be allowed to continue the use of his warehouses should he lose a tenant.
A license would not be issued for a new tenant. Commissioner Johansen replied that the
use of the building is grandfathered. Mr. Lewis contradicted Commissioner Johansen,
stating that the business use is grandfathered. Mr. Moss clarified that should Mr. Lewis
have a tenant. . .say a barber shop. . .and that tenant leaves and another tenant wants to
have an auto repair. . .that would not be allowed under that zoning. Mr. Moss remarked that
he would have to research whether or not this would be a discrepancy. Commissioner
Jensen remarked that Commercial Limited wouldn't prevent the use of the building, rather
it would have to be a use allowed under the existing (proposed) ordinance. The Mayor
confirmed that Mr. Lewis may not be able to put the same type of tenant back. Mr. Lewis
insisted that this would restrict him on tenants since it would be hard to find an
attorney who wanted an office in a warehouse. Commissioner Gulliford stated that the
intent of Commercial Limited was low intensity commercial uses and business and profess-
ional offices which are suitable within close proximity to residential districts.
Mr. Lewis maintained that the property on Mayport Road is not suitable for those uses
as specified in Commercial Limited, such as art galleries, medical or dental offices,
professional offices. Mr. Moss remarked that the purpose of this zoning is also to
project Atlantic Beach twenty (20) years down the road. A lengthly discussion took
place regarding the grandfathering of a bar that had gone out of business and another
bar wanting to come in the same place; the uses allowed under CL & CG; those uses that
would be grandfathered in; the circumstances under which grandfathering status could
be retained. Commissioner Van Ness remarked that another important factor to consider
regarding CL, as opposed to CG, is that CL would not have that same usage for on and off
traffic on Mayport Road as would occur under CL. Commissioner Johansen remarked that he
didn't want to intensify the usage, however, he didn't see how the use allowed could be
lowered. Commissioner Van Ness remarked that the CG zoning on the west side of Mayport
Road was retained due to the stop light at Plaza Drive, which allows ingress and egress
for the entire CG zone. Commissioner Johansen felt that retaining the CL zoning would
be penalizing that particular area. Mr. Moss remarked that although he wasn't part of
the conversation to determine a zone designation for that area, he felt that, in his
experience, it was the rationale to an existing situation which has been totally dis-
ruptive to the neighborhood. To the person, we hear every week, complaints regarding
that area, and that the Advisory Planning Board probably felt that the use as it now
exists is not only not compatible, but the present owners have not even attempted to
make it compatible. Commissioner Gulliford felt that John Andresen's opinion on the
board's reasoning should be gotten and a report given to the commission Monday night.
Mr. Moss stated he would report back Mr. Andresen's opinion.
Commissioner Johansen had two (2) questions which he would like answered. 1) Mr. Bull
made the remark that there were no provisions whatsoever for a repeal of any decision of
the Administrative Official, Mr. Moss. Commissioner Jensen responded by referring
Commissioner Johansen to Page 1-1, Paragraph B which states "The City Commission has the
authority to hear appeals on any decisions. . .". Commissioner Johansen was satisfied
with that and proceeded to his second question. 2) 1160 Beach Avenue, Candy & Jean
Nordhann. They maintain their duplex is grandfathered in, even though it has not been
used as a duplex. Commissioner Johansen asked for clarification from Commissioner
Jensen regarding a grandfathered in use which has not been in use as specified; that the
grandfather clause would no longer apply. Commissioner Jensen felt that would not be
correct. Mr. Moss remarked that the existing ordinance says that, however, the proposed
ordinance says that if it is not used for a period of six (6) months, then it would revert
back to the current zoning for that district. Commissioner Johansen reiterated that the
grandfather clause would not apply. Commissioner Jensen felt that if the rental part of
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JULY 8, 1982
the duplex went unrented for nine (9) months, it should not revert back to single
family residence. Mr. Moss replied that the zoning in that district has always been
single family. He quiered how it came to be a duplex. Commissioner Johansen remarked
that it was grandfathered in 1959. Mr. Moss remarked that while he had no dispute
with that, the building permit shows a single family home. There was no later building
permit to remodel, nor to remodel as a duplex. A general discussion ensued regarding
the criteria applied in determining a legal duplex being grandfathered in, and maintaining
that status. Also discussed was the concept of using a duplex in the European manner
by renting a room and providing one meal (breakfast) to a visitor for one night, one
week;whether or not this would constitute a business and require a license. The comm-
ission determined that this use would constitute a business and require a license. This
use would not be allowed in a residential area.
Mr. Lewis asked that the commission resolve his request. Recapping, Mr. Moss was to
obtain Mr. Andresen's thoughts on that particular stretch of land and report back Monday
night. Commissioner Jensen stated that the commission had to look beyond just the ware-
house; the whole shopping center must be considered. Commissioner Johansen thought that
the highest designation the commission would approve would be Commercial General (CG) ,
determined on the basis of Mr. Moss's report from Mr. Andresen. Mr. Lewis quoted Florida
Jurisprudence Volume 35, which pertains to zoning. Several excerpts from that volume
were read by Mr. Lewis. Particularly "All that one plans to use his property in accord-
ance with existing regulations in entitled to assume is that such regulations will not
alter to his detriment, unless the change bears a substantial relation to health, morals,
welfare, or safety of the public." Commissioner Johansen remarked that Mr. Lewis hit it
right on the nose; stating that is why that zoning designation was changed because people
that live there complained bout the conditions. Commissioner Jensen stated that regard-
less of any change, Mr. Lewis would still be able to use what is there now. Established
use was then discussed. Mr. Lewis was invited by Commissioner Gulliford to bring this
up Monday night. The distance requirement regarding bars would also be brought up Monday
night. Commissioner Gulliford informed Mr. Lewis that this meeting is strictly a workshop
The commission is not empowered to act on anything. The matter had to be resolved when
the commission sat, in session, as a commission meeting and not a meeting of the committee
of the whole.
Mr. Moss stated that Sevilla is not shown on our map and suggested that the lines be
drawn in as an RG-3 designation, compatible with the existing use, or as a PUD. Mr. Moss
was not sure if that development came in as a PUD. Commissioner Van Ness stated that it
did come in as a PUD and once it gets that PUD, it keeps that designation. Mr. Moss
replied that premise is applied if the project is under development to retain it's PUD
designation. However,everything else has had the zoning changed, otherwise we'd have
PUD's throughout the city. Commissioner Gulliford remarked that Mr. Bull is still de-
veloping it. The commission clarified that Sevilla would be shown as a PUD. Mr. Moss
stated yes; PUD designation would be shown for Sevilla.
Commissioner Van Ness stated that she would like to discuss that block between 10th & 11th
Streets, on the east side of Beach Avenue. Presently, it is proposed as an RG-3 zone.
The current usage consists of: The Bikini Apartments (Island Club) and Mr. Johnson, on
the next lot over, has six (6) units in that house with inadequate parking. Other than
that, the situation is duplex all down the street. Commissioner Gulliford queried Mrs.
Van Ness about down zoning it to RG-2. No, Commissioner Van Ness stated, it should be
cut back down to RG-l. She didn't know how it got to be RG-3 to begin with, however,
that whole block is not currently being used to conform with an RG-3. The Mayor stated
that it was his understanding that folks who live in that block want it as RG-3.
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JULY 8, 1982
Commissioner Van Ness agreed, however, the people that live on the west side of the
street don't like it at all. Commissioner Jensen suggested that the Planning Board
be asked about that also. Commissioner Van Ness suggested that the boundry line be
drawn just north of the Bikini Apartments and Mr. Johnson's place would just have to
be grandfathered in. As far as Commissioner Van Ness was concerned, if he met the
existing code, he has got to meet the existing parking requirements. Commissioner
Jensen interjected if Mr. Johnson's place was legal now. The general feeling was
that Mr. Johnson's place might be in violation now, as far as parking in concerned,
under the RC zoning. A discussion ensued regarding where the boundry line should
be drawn. The commission agreed with Commissioner Van Ness's suggestion. Further
discussion took place on the existing zoning, and the proposed zoning, and the events
leading up to this point in so far as alternate proposed zoning designations considered.
Commissioner Gulliford stated that the commission would have to vote on every individual
issue anyhow Monday night, and this item could be discussed then.
Commissioner Gulliford indicated another area on the map that should be discussed;
the area west of Mayport Road. Mr. Moss asked if everyone was comfortable with Section
"H", stating that 19 building permit requests have been received attempting to get in
under the wire with the old zoning. Mr. Moss felt that 19 duplexes constitutes a
development. To be consistant with our previous policies, there should be some type
of requirements for this development. Mr. Bull had to go through a 60 day process
with 10 lots. Permits written for Section "H" have absolutely no requirements; none
for sewer/water lines or streets. A general discussion ensued regarding the appropriate
actions needed in that area. Mr. Moss suggested that it be mandatory to hook-up to
city water and sewer and to put in streets. Provisions were discussed to require this
under the existing ordinance. "Acceptable" sewer facilities and streets are included
in the proposed ordinance. Mr. Moss suggested that he tell the builder that the matter
has been taken under advisement, awaiting a legal opinion. Commissioner Van Ness felt
that they would have to trust in the good judgement of the Health Department regarding
septic tanks. Mr. Moss then asked if the commission was confortable with the RS-2
designation. The consensus of the commission was yes.
The chair recognized Mr. Kelly Amber of 79 Saratoga Circle South, whose concern was
addressed to seven (7) lots which he owned in Atlantic Beach Villa Unit #2 that fronted
on Mayport Road. (Lots 29 & 30, Block 3, and Lots 1, 2, 21 & 22 of Block 4, and Lot 1,
Block 3) Mr. Amber applied for commitments for the Veterans Administration, which were
rejected. The reason for the denial of mortgage commitments was the fact that the lots
were within 150' of Mayport Road. Mr. Amber requested a zoning designation change be
considered by the commission for these properties which would allow professional offices.
He had approached the City Commission approximately eight (8) years ago to request this
same consideration, to which the commission would not respond unless Mr. Amber could
state specifically what use he desired for his property. Mr. Amber later approached
the commission with the use designated for the tax collector's office. The commission
indicated some resistance to that idea. As the property is presently zoned, the land
is not usable. Without attractive types of financing, such as VA or FHA, the land is
difficult to sell. Commissioner Van Ness questioned Mr. Amber if he wanted a CL type
of zoning. Mr. Amber replied that would be favorable for Mayport Road. Commissioner
Johansen remarked that Mr. Amber knew the lots to be within 150' of Mayport Road when
he bought them. Mr. Amber was asking the commission to intrude on a residential
neighborhood with a commercial zoning. Commissioner Gulliford reminded the commission
that the intent of Commercial Limited was to provide a buffer zone adjacent to a resid-
ential district. That zoning would merely extend the CL zone which is further south on
Mayport Road presently. Mayor Persons remarked that traffic problems would increase
dramatically should that area be rezoned to commercial. Commissioner Johansen informed
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Mr. Amber that he does have the right to request rezoning formally after this
zoning ordinance passes. Since no decision could be made tonight, Commissioner
Johansen felt that would be more advisable. Commissioner Van Ness pointed out that
it is a lot easier to change something now than to come back later. Mr. Amber felt
that the concern for traffic was not valid when Third Street through Neptune Beach
and Jacksonville Beach managed very well with commercial properties fronting on Third
Street. Mr. Amber reiterated his concern and request to be able to use his property
to some advantage. Mr. Moss suggested to Mr. Amber that if a use could be found that
he (Mr. Amber) felt would be acceptable to the surrounding residents and to the city
commission, then a formal request for rezoning should be submitted. The consensus
of the city commission agreed with this suggestion.
Commissioner Gulliford questions a remark which Mr. Bull made concerning Mr. Moss's
dictatorial powers on Page 3-1, which says the "Administrative Official appointed by
the City Commission shall have the following powers and responsibilities. . .". The
Commissioner pointed out that Mr. Bull assumes that the City Manager is in fact the
Administrative Official. That Administrative Official could be anyone that the City
Commission chose to appoint. In fact, we could appoint the Building Inspector as the
Administrative Official. Commissioner Van Ness stated yes. A building official, per se,
that would cover the whole department. Commissioner Gulliford stated that that indiv-
idual could accomplish all the administrative actions required by this code. Mrs. Kerber
interjected that "he (the building official) could hire "x" number of people to help
him administer it" so we would in fact have another layer of bureaucracy in our little
city hall. Commissioner Gulliford stated that the way the code is written, it does not
automatically assume that the City Manager is, in fact, the Administrative Official.
Mr. Bull, in his attack, made that assumption. Mayor Persons felt that the whole code
is very technical as far as how things are done; who has what power. Mr. Moss remarked
that, in terms of practicality, you have one City Manager, and a couple of secretaries.
He did not know where the bureaucracy could be. The Mayor remarked that the bureaucracy
is that within the code, not necessarily Mr. Moss. The Mayor projected five years from
now, we have another city manager who goes by the letter of the code. Then we'd have
a problem. Mr. Moss remarked that presently we have a subdivision coming of more than
100 units. A subdivision doesn't get reviewed in one day. The potential is there for
doubling the city in a relatively short time. The control of the bureaucracy in the
budget process, Mr. Moss asserted. The Mayor felt that there was a distinct similarity
between this code and the code of Federal Regulations. The alternative the Mayor felt
would be to simplify the code. Also, the thirty-three (33) pages of definitions could
possible be a future source for conflict, and possibly litigation. Commissioner Van Ness
remarked that without the definitions, we'd be flying by the seat of our pants. Mrs.
Kerber questioned what was wrong with the old code. Mr. Moss replied that the old code
didn't require anything. Commissioner Gulliford felt that it was important to have
something definitive. He trusted the political system, and trusted that system to monitor
the growth of this city. However, the Commissioner felt that a group of people in this
city on the commission acted totally and completely irresponsible in allowing Selva
Marina streets and the fact that they are not suitable for the city to accept dedication
of those streets. This will cause severe problems in the future for this city. The
Mayor indicated some concern regarding the variances allowable under this code.
Commissioner Gulliford disagreed with that, in that the way the code is written, it is
extremely tight and very limited. Also the definition of variance on Page 2.24.
Mr. Moss remarked that the Board of Adjustments is provided for by State Statues and
seems to be compatible with those Statues.
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A general discussion ensued regarding past public hearing that both the Advisory
Planning Board and the City Commission had held. Reference was made to Jiffy Mart
selling beer illegally. A lengthly discussion took place regarding the ordinance
proposed to allow the sale of beer & wine. Sewer rates were discussed and the impact
on all citizens in Atlantic. Impact fees were not assessed before 1977.
It was determined that the height of 35' would be applicable to Commercial and Industrial
districts also.
The definition of alteration was questioned. Commissioner Gulliford stated that
this sould be more definitive. "Any alteration" should be changed to "Any substantial
alteration" or "Any material alteration". Mr. Moss remarked that the guide is actually
the building code since that is more definitive. No change was determined.
Mr. Moss suggested that the committee might want to take a ride out to the Community
Block Grant area and review the accomplishments of the grant. The Capital Improvements
are finished, however, the remodeling is not finished yet.
There being no further business to discuss, the Mayor adjourned the meeting at 10:06 PM.
�♦ \
Rob-rt B. Person , Jr.
Mayor - Commissioner
•T:
1/1-
0"1-fers.,„
Pat Whitney
City Clerk