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06-05-90 v AGENDA CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD CITY OF ATLANTIC BEACH June 5, 1990 Call to Order Pledge to Flag la. Approval of Minutes of March 6, 1990 b. Approval of Minutes of April 10, 1990 2. Recognition of Visitors and Guests 3. Old Business Case #0013 - Francisco Rebelo, 1651 Mayport Road, Atlantic Beach, Florida 32233, Part of Lot 3 as Recorded in 0/R Book 4549-979, in violation of the Code of Ordinances of the City of Atlantic Beach, Section 12-1 4. New Business Letter to the Board from City Clerk Maureen King relative to action of the City Commission 5. Board Members Comments 6. Adjournment VERBATIM MINUTES OF THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD MEETING HELD AT CITY HALL ON JUNE 5, 1990 AT 7:30 P.M. CALL TO ORDER: PRESENT: George Bull, Jr. , Chairman Heywood Dowling, Jr. William J. Dorsey G. Edward Martin Herbert Moller Mary Lyle Perry AND: Suzanne Bass, Prosecuting Attorney Alan Jensen, Legal Council to Board Don Ford, Code Enforcement Officer Karen S. Moore, Secretary ABSENT: Mattie Freeman, Excused Mr. Bull: The Code Enforcement Board for the City of Atlantic Beach is now in session, can we all rise and face the flag please. (pledge to the flag followed) We have so many visitors and guests I'm going to recognize you all and not individually, thanks for coming out. At least we have a lot of interest tonight in what's going on at our meeting. I have some old business that I've got to take up with you all . Last meeting we did something that I felt was not correct and after discussing it with Don, we both decided that the action that this Board took was not correct. Due to the Sunshine Law I could not talk to any of you about it, I could not write you a letter, but I had to take action. We had at the last meeting understood that possibly Mr. Rebelo had not cleaned up the lot next door to his property and I forget the lady's name, what was the lady's name? Mrs. Moore: Augusta Sparrow Mr. Bull: Yeah, Augusta Sparrow's property. What had happened after reviewing the previous minutes, we asked him to clean it up and also he had mentioned there was some trash on the right-of-way that was not his but he would gather it up into one area for the city to pick up. Well the city never picked it up therefore it looked like that possibly it hadn't been cleaned up and I went out and reviewed it and the city hadn't cleaned it up and the city, as a matter of fact, never cleaned it up until two weeks ago, Page 2 so that's the kind of response that we are getting out of the city when we ask them to do something once in a while. I think there was a problem,wasn't it Don, with a truck being broken down also? Didn't we have a big garbage truck or trash truck that was broken down? Mr. Ford: I contacted Public Works and they keep a log of all the telephone calls that come in at Public Works and as of our last meeting they had not been called to pick up any debris on that property, so that's the response. Mr. Bull: No, well we called them, Karen called them three times and we still couldn't get any response, finally we got a hold of Claude and he went out there and did it. Mr. Ford: That. .that was after the last meeting, is that correct. Mr. Bull: Yeah, that was after the last meeting, right. Mr. Ford: Thank you, thank you. Mr. Bull: Uh. .No it wasn't. .didn't have anything to do with you it had to do with. . .I don't know what it had to do with. But anyway, we sent Mr. Rebelo the letter instructing him that or telling him we were fining him and than I wrote down on the bottom of the letter "Dear Mr. Rebelo, this is a form letter and must be issued as per the discussion of the Board. I have determined upon inspection the day after that you in fact complied with our previous order. There will be no fine and I will inform the Board at the next meeting." So I would like concurrence on that, please, to protect myself. Mr. Ford: May I respond to that? Mr. Bull: Sure. Mr. Ford: I did an inspection of that same property the day after, and I Page 3 determined on that very day that the property was still not in compliance 100%, I took the City Manager with me for that inspection and he agreed with me. And I also asked Mr. Dowling to inspect the property on that day and I would like to have his response. Mr. Dowling: I saw what I. . what appeared to be more than just yard trash type debris. I saw some items that looked like they were semi equipment, brackets and things like that, but I have no way of knowing whether or not they were Mr. Rebelo's or someone else had dumped it on the property. But there was about half a pickup truck load of debris that was not debris that I think the city usually picks up. Mr. Bull: There was some mattresses and some of that kind of trash. Mr. Dowling: Yeah, there was a mattress, miscellaneous stuff. Mr. Bull: Right, right. Mr. Dowling: I would say that it did, in my opinion, still constitutes a nuisance, again I don't know who's. . . Mr. Bull: Did everyone go out and look at the property today? All Board members answered Yes Mr. Bull: Both pieces? All Board members answered Yes Mr. Martin: When you say both pieces. . . Ms. Perry: Both pieces is that indicating. . . Mr. Bull: No, lets confine ourselves to the piece that we are talking about, Augusta Sparrow's piece. Mr. Martin: Which piece. . .is that shown on this map? Mr. Bull: No, it's not. Mr. Martin: Where is it relative to. . . Mr. Bull: The notch. Page 4 Mr. Martin: Up in here? Mr. Bull: Right, right. I need a motion to concur with what I did or I need a motion to tell me that I'm full of it. Mr. Dowling: That's tempting. Mr. Bull: That tempting. Mr. Dowling: I'll move so that you were proper in your actions. Mr. Martin: I'll second it, for discussion. Mr. Bull: Okay, any discussion? Mr. Martin: Well, obviously whether you right or wrong or indifferent I think we have to approve the motion because we certainly can't, having told you, told Mr. Rebelo that ends the argument as far as I'm concerned. So I urge that we just pass it. Mr. Bull: Any more discussion? Call for a question. All in favor of the motion. The motion passed unanimously. Mr. Bull: We have a new Board member, welcome aboard. What do you do, Bill? Mr. Dorsey: I do the same thing that Mr. Jensen and Ms. Bass do, I'm an attorney. I will probably create a lot of havoc up here. Mr. Bull: We're not going to let you create a lot of havoc. Welcome aboard. Mr. Dorsey: Thank you. Mr. Bull: Okay, let's see what we got next. Mr. Martin: You going to back up from the old business and approve some minutes? Mr. Bull: Yes, we never did do that did we? We need to approve the minutes of March 6, 1990, do I hear a motion to approve the minutes of March 6, 1990. Page 5 Mr. Martin: So moved. Ms. Bass: Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question? Mr. Bull: Certainly. Ms. Bass: The first case that we dealt with, the Claude Chambers property, 574 Ocean Boulevard, the Board might recall this is the property that was zoned single family that Mr. Chambers was renting out two units as a duplex. The minutes say that and I'll just read directly from the minutes. "Mr. Bull moved that Mr. Chambers could continue to use the dwelling as a single family residence with two unrelated people living there as long as they are cooking together and may physically keep the structure the way it is at the present time." My question,Mr. Bull, is that as it's worded is confusing. I had a. . .well Mr. Bishop, the witness that testified in that case, called me the day after and said well what did the Board do. And I told Mr. Bishop what I thought the Board did and. . . Mr. Bull: We found that he was in compliance with the Ordinance, if I recall. Ms. Bass: In as much as the second party had moved out at the time of our meeting. . . Mr. Bull: Yeah but two unrelated people are certainly privy to live in the same single family residence by Ordinance. Ms. Bass: That's correct. . Mr. Bull: As long as they cook and habitat together whether it be man and man or man and wife or what. Ms. Bass: I guess my question is just . . . was it the Boards ruling that as long as the premises were used as they were intended in the single family capacity albeit two people living there, cooking together, is permitted that Page 6 as long as he didn' t rent two units as he did before that that was permitted. Mr. Bull: Certainly. That was. . . I thought was the gist of the decision of the Board. Ms. Bass: Well, I did too though it is somewhat confusing here when it says that Mr. Chambers could continue to use the dwelling as a single family residence. In fact at the time of the hearing it was being used as a single family residence though historically or within the immediate past it had been a duplex. Mr. Bull: I don't recall whether that was ever proven but that was a supposition, yeah. Mr. Martin: It was proven to some of our satisfaction. Mr. Bull: Was it? Mr. Martin: Yes sir. Mr. Bull: Okay. So do we need to. . .is everything still all right with that Don? Do we know? Mr. Ford: As far as I know, I've talked to the gentleman that moved out of there and he maintains the property for Mr. Chambers and it's still being used as a single family dwelling. Mr. Bull: Okay. Item la, approval of the minutes of March 6, 1990, I think. .did you make a motion Ed? Mr. Martin: I did. Mr. Bull: Do I have a second to this? Mr. Moller: I second it. Mr. Bull: All in favor. Minutes of March 6 1990 approved unanimously. Mr. Bull: Approval of the minutes of April 10, 1990. Page 7 Mr. Martin: So moved. Mr. Dowling: Second. Mr. Bull: All in favor. Minutes of April 10, 1990 approved unanimously. Mr. Bull: Sorry I got out of order. But. .uh. . .that's been bothering me a lot for the last ninety days. I don' t like to do things without concurrence of the Board but the Sunshine Law won't let me do anything else. And I didn't want to get Mr. Rebelo very upset about something we didn't feel. . .I didn't feel was correct. And I don't think. . . .I think at the time Don and I concurred a couple of days later that everything was . . .I'm not fussing at you at all. Mr. Ford: A few days later he was, he did clear it up and he has made a good effort. Mr. Bull: That was when I went out there, before the letter went out. Anyway everybody's happy on that, I hope. I would like to make a suggestion as kind of a . . . .suggestion, I think we have a tendency to get a little confused if we don't visit pieces of property and we need to visit them when they're complained upon. We need to visit them when. . .when we ask them to comply and we need to visit them when we ask them to make progress to see if they are making progress so I think we can all get a first hand look and be more aware of what's going on. It makes it a lot easier on everybody else, so I would like for everybody to do that from here out. And I think everybody did go out and visit Mr. Rebelo's property today. Ms. Perry: It was very difficult to relate to the photographs that I had seen concurrently all along after having only seen the property for the first time today, I agree. Mr. Bull: Okay, Old Business, Case 0013, Francisco Rebelo, 651 Mayport Page 8 Road, Atlantic Beach, Florida, 32233, Part of Lot 3 as Recorded in 0/R Book 4549-979, in violation of the Code Enforcement of the City of Atlantic Beach, Section 12-1. Okay, let's discuss what occurred at the last meeting and what we asked Mr. Rebelo to do, and Karen would you read the decision that we came to so we can all be very fresh in our minds what we had asked Mr. Rebelo to do. I've heard so many rumors about what he's supposed to be doing. Mrs. Moore: (Motion from the March 6, 1990 minutes) Mr. Martin moved that the Board table this case until the next quarterly meeting and that Mr. Rebelo be advised that in that ninety days after the length of time this problem is going on that substantial and visible improvements has to be made and if there is not substantial improvements in ninety days, the Board will be forced to take drastic action. Mr. Bull: Thank you. We also have some . . . do we have some correspondence from Mr. Rebelo? (Mr. Bull proceeded to read a letter from Mr. Rebelo a copy of which is attached hereto and made a part hereof. ) Don, let me ask you a question because I don't quite remember, on commercial property are we still bound by the four foot/six foot rule on fence as far as front yards. Mr. Ford: Yes sir, I've looked at the design he has there and the set back requirements comply as far as a six foot fence. Yeah, I guess his property fronts on Jackson Road actually, doesn't it and the side yard would be Mayport Road. Mr. Ford: Right. Mr. Bull: Good. I think first we need to ask Don since he's been out there,his feelings about the progress that Mr. Rebelo has made. Mr. Ford: I was out there this afternoon and he has cleared quite a bit of property as Ms. Perry stated earlier, the area that is directly fronting on Page 9 Mayport Road has been totally cleared, the major portion of the materials that are left on the property are behind some trees, and they' re not directly seen from Mayport Road and I think the plan he has to install a fence as a barrier until he can build a building is a good plan. Mr. Bull: So the city at this point is satisfied with the progress he had made in his intentions. . . .his future intentions . Would anybody like to make any comments from the Board? Mr. Moller: What were the exact words was it substantial and visible? Well I didn't see the property last time except through the pictures but I did drive by today and it seems to me it's substantial and visible. Mr. Martin: I guess, you know there's been. . . .I'll agree with the visible, but I've got to say it still looks like a disaster area, I'm sorry. Mr. Dowling: I agree, I still think that Mr. Rebelo has complied just barely with what we have asked him to do. But I think what we see is still a visual nuisance and in my opinion a liability for children that may play around that equipment, but I think that he has tried hard and I think that because of that, he definitely does not enter into a fine situation. I'd be very interested in hearing a little more detail about Mr. Rebelo's time frame on eliminating the nuisance either through fencing as suggested here or storage or removal. Mr. Bull: Mr. Rebelo, can you give us an idea of when you think you might be able to finish up your task so to speak, namely build a fence. Mr. Rebelo: The fence will be erected as fast as I can which should be a matter of days upon. . . . Mr. Bull: Would you say you would have the fence up and all the equipment behind out of sight within thirty days? Mr. Rebelo: Because of the circumstances I would like to have a little more Page 10 time, I think I can do it in thirty days but so it won't be upon me so much stress and suffering like I have been through, I would like to have a little more time if I can. If I can not. . . Mr. Bull: Would forty five days be sufficient? Mr. Rebelo: Yes sir, it would be more than sufficient. Mr. Bull: Does anybody have any problems with that? Mr. Martin: You're saying forty five more days to build a fence? Mr. Bull: And get everything stored behind it. Mr. Dowling: Well I think one of the problems Mr. Rebelo told us about before was the cost of the fence. Now my experience with a fence like this will be approximately $1300 - $1500. Mr. Rebelo: Yes, it's no problem to me the cost of the fence. Mr. Dowling: So are telling us that you could afford to put the fence up now? Mr. Rebelo: Yes, sir no problem what so ever. Mr. Dowling: What would you need forty five days for then? Mr. Rebelo: Because, to put the fence to bring up behind the fence nice and neat the way it's suppose to be and so it won't be an eyesore. Mr. Bull: Kind of like extra curricular activity doing while he's running his business. Ms. Perry: I think unfortunately Mr.Rebelo's in a situation where he's just in a business where he is. . . he said he salvages parts and although it looks likes junk to us I'm sure that a lot of what he has there is in fact. . .he needs, and I think he is in a distinct disadvantage in that sense and I think we do have to take that into consideration. It's a very much an eyesore to him but it is very much a part of his business. I know I'm sure a lot of that stuff is very heavy equipment and it would take some time to Page 11 move around, I think that putting it behind a fence as you said to save from kids playing in it and that kind of thing again on defense of him in a sense just the nature of his business is not a very pleasant one. Do you understand? Mr. Bull: Visually. Ms. Perry: Visually, it's just not, I mean it's. .he has a bunch of large pieces of equipment that look like. . .just. . . junk and I think that something that we really have to consider and I'm sure a lot of it is very heavy, so I think the fence. . if he can do that in forty five days, I'm in agreement with that. Mr. Martin: I would call your attention though, and we discussed this, whether it was junk or not and Mr. Rebelo told us it wasn't but I know in the last paragraph of this letter he does state that he has "allowed to accumulate an unnecessary amount of junk that was no use to me or my business", that's his statement in the letter, see and the last time we discussed this it was not junk, it was all stuff that was very valuable and so forth. Mr. Dowling: Well it was 15% junk. Mr. Bull: Well, he has. . . . Mr. Moller: Well he said. . .didn't he say he would use 85%. Ms. Perry: What I say today were like compressors and fan wheels and the kind of thing from what I. . .he's described to me would be pertinent as salvage material. And it was stacked around trees like you said I mean he was trying to hide it out of the most visible sight I mean you could tell it had been graded, you know, I mean some kind of tractor or something had come in and . . . . Mr. Martin: But did not I see still some stuff along the front of Mayport Page 12 Road? Mr. Bull: I didn't see much of anything, did you? Mr. Dowling: Well it's back about thirty or thirty five feet. Mr. Martin: There equipment right on the corner, there's some kind of container, gray, the size of maybe a refrigerator type size, sitting right on the corner. Mr. Dowling: I looks like it's sitting out there to be hauled off. It's a cart of some type isn't it Mr. Rebelo, and industrial cart? It's sitting out near the corner? Mr. Rebelo: Near the corner I have a high voltage transformer and I have two trailers in which I use constantly, I have one upside down. Mr. Bull: Do you know what it is Don? Mr. Ford: No I don't I've got a picture of it but I. . . . Mr. Dowling: It's on Ardella. Mr. Martin: You've got a picture of it? There is something there or I've lost my mind completely. Mr. Rebelo: I know what it is, it's a old trailer and I moved it today. I had it there to cover the scrap. . . . every time one of the trucks pick up the scrap,I put them behind the trailer so won't be. . .I can move that trailer today. Ms. Bass: Members of the Board, if I can make a comment please at the risk of saying something that might be perceived as unpopular, if the Board allows Mr. Rebelo to put up a fence that's not going to cure the violation. It's going to mask the violation. The only point I want to make to the Board for the Boards consideration is that if a fence is allowed does the Board want to put a time table on the fence in terms. . . . Mr. Bull: I'm sorry, you're wrong, the Board. . .this city gave him a permit to have this type of business and when they gave him a permit to have this Page 13 type of business, then they opened the door to store and to have those type of equipment that are necessary for his business. Now, to screen off and eliminate an eyesore, I think, is part of solving of the nature and the spirit of his business. Ms. Bass: Mr. Chairman, I'm not trying to be adversarial about my comment only to say to the Board that for it's consideration the Board simply might want to consider it's previous ruling in terms of finding Mr. Rebelo in violation. And now to go to the extent of saying well, if you put up a fence. . . . Mr. Bull: No, we talked about this at our last meeting. . . Ms. Bass: Well, I just raised this point. . . Ms. Perry: The fence was just temporary until he could afford to build a building. Mr. Bull: That's correct. But we always, even electrical contractors or a lot of contractors have fences that mask off the storage of their outside equipment and we do that in industrial zones all the time. Mr. Ford: That's not an industrial zone. Mr. Bull: But, he's been. . . how long have you been there Mr. Rebelo? Mr. Rebelo: Nine years. Mr. Bull: Nine years, whether it's industrial or not he was given a permit at that point in time to operate that business therefore in my opinion, he's grandfathered to operate that business. Mr. Jensen: I think the Board should be advised, there's no question about that, I think he is properly conducting his business there but the zoning there does not permit outside storage. And that is. . .what this Board has to keep in mind that the issue before this Board is whether he is violating that Ordinance of outside storage. This Board nor any other Board of the Page 14 City can require him to put up a fence. If he agrees to put up a fence, as a temporary solution prior to getting all this storage inside as would be be required under the current zoning, then. . . Mr. Bull: Was he allowed to store this stuff under the present. . .under the zoning by which he acquired an occupational license. Mr. Jensen: His occupational license did not give him the right to violate the ordinance or the zoning and have outside storage. Mr. Bull: What you're saying than that in fact was true when he was issued the occupational license. The zoning had not changed. Mr. Jensen: To my knowledge it hasn't. And if he agrees to put up some type of fence, as a temporary measure in compliance with this Board's request and you all decide not to do anything as long as he's progressing towards eliminating all outside storage, that's fine but he can't be required to put up a fence. Mr. Bull: No, I understand that, we didn't require it. But he came to us with the idea of a fence as a measure to accomplish that right now, as a matter of fact this letter says "until he builds a building." Now what is temporary. Mr. Jensen: That's what you all have to determine. Ms. Perry: Well, what's a building, I mean is it something with a roof on it. I mean if Mr. Rebelo is going to spend $1,500 on a fence would he not be better off to spend $1,500 and get a metal shed? Mr. Bull: It would cost more than that though. Ms. Perry: But see my point. . . . Mr. Bull: The building would have to be constructed in accordance with the Southern Standard Building Codes. Ms. Perry: Oh is that right, I mean you couldn't just like a metal. . . . Mr. Bull: No, no. Page 15 Mr. Jensen: He would put what ever is allowed under that building. Mr. Bull: Well not only that but under what ever is allowed as far as the building code wise is concerned. Mr. Martin: We'd have a whole new case than. Mr. Moller: So, we really have to address the issue of how much time he should be allowed. . .should be allowed to pass until he puts the building up to be in accordance with the code. Mr. Dowling: Or get rid of the debris. Mr. Jensen: Or get rid of the outside storage. Mr. Martin: I gather Mr. Rebelo, you have . . . . have you made any progress towards a building? Mr. Rebelo: Not yet sir. Mr. Bull: Do you have any estimation of a time table on a building? Mr. Rebelo: I'd be lying to you if I can give you a fast decision because it's a matter of economics and as it is I've put quite a strain on. . . Mr. Bull: Would it be acceptable to this Board to allow him to put up a fence to temporarily shield this equipment with the understanding that within the next, when do we meet next, and he would be required to do this in 45 days and then in our meeting in September, he would come with a timetable as far as eliminating the fence and the outside storage and constructing a building. At a timetable that is acceptable to the City. Mr. Jensen: Eliminating the outside storage or constructing a building if he choses. Mr. Martin: I . . . . George the length of time this has gone already, I could go along with that but I think thirty days for the fence is adequate because that just. . . .we're just running this thing out too long and I don't think the extra two weeks the fence is got to be purchased and put up and as far Page 16 as I'm concerned that process should start tomorrow, the erection of the fence and therefore thirty days is plenty of time. Mr. Jensen: Keep in mind that you can not require him to put a fence up. Mr. Martin: I understand that. . . Mr. Jensen: The only deadline you can place on him is to eliminate the outside storage. Mr. Martin: That's right, but what I'm saying is if he wants to offer to put up a fence and have it done within the next thirty days as a temporary measure, that I could support that, that's what I'm saying. If he doesn't want to do that, that's fine. Ms. Perry: Well then if he doesn't comply then he looking at a $100 a day fine, is he not? Wasn't that our alternative? Mr. Bull: Whatever fine we can place on him. Mr. Martin: I think the $100 went to that other piece of property. Mr. Bull: But I think whatever the maximum is. Ms. Perry: But isn't that the. . . . that's his alternative. Is that not correct? Mr. Jensen: If you all find him in violation of the ordinance you can impose a fine. Mr. Dorsey: May I ask a question? Obviously the problem is that it's not a matter of masking something or whatever, it's the matter of whether or not he can store things outside and he's intending to build a building that's going to put those things inside. I would suggest that perhaps there be a timetable for him to get rid of that property either have it not on the property or inside of a building and that we set that, as you said Mr. Chairman, perhaps September because obviously there has to be some progress made towards that. Alan said that we can't make him build a fence and if he doesn't build a fence we can't fine him for not building the fence, I Page 17 mean that's not a violation of the code. But I think that we can construe that the building of the fence perhaps in evidence of progress being made towards eliminating the storage outside at least you know that's kind of a vague way of saying it but it gives him an opportunity to mask that problem that' s there, gives him an opportunity to come up with some plans, a timetable and I assume that you're going to build this building in the proposed area that you were going to fence off, is that correct Mr. Rebelo? Mr. Rebelo: It's up to the architect, I don't know much about . . . . probably one building covering even the whole structure and just one larger building and give a better position because even my own building. . . I intend to make it better because location I benefit from that, so I don't know exactly . . . .at the time I would have to take advisory from the proper people because I don't know about construction. Mr. Dorsey: Well, it doesn't matter to me whether it's thirty days or forty five days, I don't really think that. . . .to me it's not that significant, I would suggest that if you're going to do a fence that hopefully you would if from. . . that you're going to cover the front part which is the most eyesore part of it. But my suggestion, for whatever it's worth is that we take that as evidence that he's progressing to get rid of that property as outside storage and that if he hasn't done so within the thirty or forty five days, then could be fined for storing things outside which is in violation of the code. Mr. Rebelo: The only reason I ask forty five days is due to my line of business. Sometimes I have emergency like tonight I've got to go back to work on a job for the Navy and I can do it in a week but if I have emergency, if I have something else, then I need more time. But usually I can do it in a week. Page 18 Mr. Dorsey: I think that perhaps the Board would want to say that you're not going to wait the fortieth day and start building the fence that you're going to be making some progress. As far as I'm concerned I can understand if you've got to do this in your extracurricular time and it's not going to be something you can devote all your time to, I would hope that we're not going to wait until thirty days or forty days down the road before you start building the fence. So for whatever that's worth I can see legally that's where we are the problem is the storage of these articles outside. Eventually, it's going to have to be eliminated whether it's put inside or off the property all together. Mr. Martin: Laying aside the thirty or forty five days for a minute , if we except Mr. Rebelo's offer to build a fence, I guess that's a fair way to put it, whether it is thirty or forty five days where does that leave us? I mean where do we go from there? Mr. Bull: Well, I think it leaves us at the point that he is going to come back at our next regular scheduled meeting and give us some indication that he's made some progress as far as the timetable on construction a building. Ms. Perry: What would we accept as that, a contract. . . Mr. Bull: Who knows, right now you can't get 50% of a loan to build a commercial building because the banks aren't lending any money. Where does that put him? What's the financial picture going to be in ninety days, I don't know. Maybe worse than it is now. Mr. Dowling: I don't know about that but I know that we owe it to the people of that community, especially the ones that directly complained, to do something now about what I saw today left on that property. It has got to disappear. He can wait two years to build a fence as far as I 'm concerned but I think what I saw today, mostly motor or motor housings, Page 19 which look terrible from Mayport Road should be moved, and in my opinion can be moved in less than ten days because despite the comment about heavy equipment and so on I know from my experience in my business they can be moved fairly quickly with one piece of equipment. And I would like to know from you sir if you can move those items behind your exiting building in that hundred and eighteen foot strip back there somewhere. Mr. Rebelo: Yes sir, I've been moving it and most of the items I can move like I have one motor weighing forty thousand pounds. I scrapped the motor and I got from that almost $20,000, but I scrapped it so it wouldn't be an eyesore. It was right over there. Nobody ever told me I couldn't put it right over there otherwise I wouldn't even stock. If I knew I was . . . .I obey the law, when I'm told I do it. I not if I didn't know but now I'll make more sure that if I do something I'm going to know the law, because I want to be respected. I never had any problems, I'm sixty years old. Mr. Dowling: Well, I thank you that you have substantially complied with what we have asked you to do and I appreciate that but we still have to do something about what's left and I think if you could move it behind the existing building and get the most sensitive nuisance stored behind your building out of sight from Mayport Road it would be slightly visible from Ardella Road but not too much. And complete that portion it would help quite a bit. What I'm afraid of is a log jam. What happens here is if he puts a fence up two more days, what's he going to do when he decides to build his building, and then all this time more equipment is accumulating behind the fence. So one day he decides he can build the building and he can get his loan than he's going to have to go through a long process of getting rid of everything because you have to move it somewhere to construct the building. It just gets worse, it's just building up behind the fence. Page 20 I'm not personally in favor of a fence but I think at least if you could move what we saw today behind that building it would help at least the people who complained. Mr. Martin: Could I ask one of our distinguished lawyers here a questions. Actually the truth of the matter is if I understood what you said and I think I did, that we're not in a position nor do we have the authority to condone the outside storage whether. . . .anywhere. That's correct, is it not? Mr. Bull: I'm not sure that's correct. Mr. Jensen: It's a question I think his options are to either get all the outside storage off or get them inside. Now whether he wants to construct a new building or put it under an existing building, that's up to him. Mr. Dorsey: Let me ask you this, practically speaking, is there a way to monitor. . . .I can see Mr. Dowling was saying that we don't want to building up the storage, I mean right now he's in violation of the code. So what we're doing is we're basically setting that violation or we're not going to penalize him for that we're going to give him a opportunity to correct the problem. Is there a way to monitor to make sure that Mr. Rebelo does not continue to put property outside, is there? Mr. Ford: Yes sir. Mr. Dorsey: I mean where we can periodically . . . .I mean I went by there and I took a look at it and I didn't stop and try and count how many piecees of machinery or equipment or whatever there was, but I don't think that we want to be in a position where it continues to build up. Mr. Ford: I think if you'll review the file we have here and the previous pictures compared to the pictures I took today, I think you'll be impressed with the progress out there. So there is a method to monitor it, yes sir. Mr. Dorsey: Well I would suggest that whatever we do that we definitely make that as part of it. That it's not going to increase in number that if Page 21 anything it will diminish in size or number as well as being masked as well as making progress towards eliminating the problem all together. I'm new to this, I don't know what the complaints were so I have to digest what I've read and what I've seen and just hopefully find a solution to the problem and move on with it. Mr. Bull: Well, of course one thing that always concerns me about people that have been in business for quite a while and then all of the sudden they are asked to comply with our ordinances is why was this allowed by anyone to go along so long. I mean when he first started storing stuff outside nine years ago why was not this taken up at that time. Then all of the sudden we take a man who's been in business for nine or ten years and we want to immediately try and put him out of business in about 3 weeks and I'm not of that persuasion in this city. I don't like it, I like to give somebody some leniency to do that particularly when the city in it's own duties have been promiscuous along these lines. Mr. Martin: I agree with that but we're talking right now we're talking at least six months not 3 weeks. As a minimum we're talking six month now. Mr. Moller: Well I agree with what you say, Mr. Chairman, I'm just saying that I don't approve of eyesores and it is still an eyesore although he has made a good faith effort to correct it. . . Mr. Bull: And he's not the only eyesore either on Mayport Road, Section H or anyplace else. Mr. Moller: The city in a sense is contributory negligent in a way because they have allowed this to go on for a long time. Mr. Bull: And allows it to go on in different locations. Mr. Moller: I think we should be as lenient as suitable, not give him a blank check in the matter, but we should be as understanding as we can about it. Page 22 Mr. Ford: I would just like to say that our first complaint on this was in 1988 and that's on record with the city. So he has been notified for two years now that he was not in compliance. Mr. Moller: Does the Board think it's worth considering taking another since the fence is essentially a Band-Aid operation. It's still not. . .in other words we're delaying compliance with the code allowing him to build the fence. He's still not in compliance if he has outside storage. Would it be more reasonable to give him a certain period of time by which he would have to come up with a concrete plan with the financing and the contractors plans or architects or whatever. I don't guess you need an architect to build a shed like that. Ms. Perry: It seems to me like if the eventual goal is to build a building, for him to spend $1,500 to $2,000 on a fence that is a temporary thing, to me would be a waste of money for him. I mean I don't know how much money he has whether, you know to build a fence temporary for. . .if we give him six month well is $2,000 wasted because they are going to have to tear it down and move all the stuff anyway, I mean that's. . .I think that's an issue. Mr. Moller: How do you feel Mr. Rebelo, would you rather be put in a position were you have to come up with. . . . Mr. Rebelo: I would like to be honest because the (unclear) . . .doesn't effect me that much or rather build a fence, put some greens, make. . . .comply with the best I can and gradually either if I can not store outside, find a zone which has offered from. . . .by different people and than make my business. . .the storage someplace else. I'll obey the law or put a building. As a business man, I have to analyze what would be the best way but I want to stay in business and I intend to. And I think I'm an asset to the community because I'm the only one with that type of business. Page 23 Mr. Bull: Can I ask something, we have a pretty good size audience and obviously there is some interest here and I don't know whether the interest is. . . .on which side the interest is and I would like in whether these. . . .are you folks neighbors or do you live in the community or are you friends or are you enemies or. . . .go ahead. Gentleman in audience did not state name: Mr. Bull, I've been back here from North Carolina for a little over 2 years and I've been a resident here in Atlantic Beach and you know. . .I. . .and I think the world of everybody that I've met in Atlantic Beach but I want to tell you, there's a lot of stuff, like you said, you said a mouth full when you said it's allowed in all these other areas. Right around my house, right next door to my house there's garbage. I've called the city and I've called and I've talked to people and I ain't got nothing done. They go on and tell well they're renters you got to get in touch with the one who owns the place. Then there's junk cars sitting all around Atlantic Beach. Now I understand what Frank's talking about here. If he's willing to put up a fence and put this behind to try and help the city, I think the city needs to give him a little bit of time. And the thing of it is, just like the man willing to sit here. . . . this has gone on for nine years and here you go try to slam him down to six months or so. I think the thing that needs to be done is the city needs to turn around and bend with him a little bit. He's willing to put up the fence,let him put up the fence, and like he says we'll help him put up the fence because there's not one of us sitting right here that is not friends with him or neighbors with him that lives here in Atlantic Beachwe all live in Atlantic Beach. Now you can't sit here and say. . . .this gentleman talking about . . . .it's a eyesore from Mayport Road. Brother let me tell you, you ride up and down Mayport Road, Frank's is one eyesore. Now let me tell Page 24 you, I love Atlantic Beach, I think the world of Atlantic Beach but I think we need to step on some other toes than just stepping on one persons toes at the same time. This man is willing to put up a fence and let's let him try. And like he says when he can afford a building or if he can't let him try to house it somewhere else. I know Frank, I've know Frank for quite a while now, let me tell you, Frank's not going to tell you something that he's not going to do. And I'm quite sure I've got a bunch of people sitting right here that feels the same way I do. I know you all are trying to do the best of your ability but I think we all need to go out here and step on some toes before we stomp one man into the ground. Mr. Bull: Thank you, yes sir. Steve Gammons: Frank's a friend of mine and I was going to open a garage in Atlantic Beach and they wouldn't let me have it. They said the zoning was off. I was on 18 Donner Road, I got all set up over there and some guys were in there a couple months before I was running a body shop, didn't have no license, running it illegal the whole nine yards. I've got my business card right here, it's got the address and everything on it. I had all these printed had the phones put in, had a paint booth built, had an office built. I didn't have the money to buy an air compressor. Frank said Steve you come over here, if you need one you come get it, you pay me when you can. I tell you what, this man right here, ain't nobody going to do anything to Frank and I'm not threatening anybody but I just feel like. . . .it's unjust the way you're all doing Frank right now. I just think if you all just take a few minutes just take your time, figure out what the man can do , you don't give a man nine years to collect something and then give him a couple weeks or couple months to get rid of it, it takes time. I mean see I do paint and body work, that's like me, I might have a bunch of stuff, fenders and doors, Page 25 you'd look at it and say "hey, that's just a bunch of junk parts for cars" but I look at it differently than you do. Because if I've got a used door right here and I can use the lock out of it or just the lock rod or assembly or handle out of the inside, that's money in my pocket and that's what Frank has done. I've been up there. . . .I've rode by there every night for the last three weeks and seen Frank out there working when I was heading home from work. I work twelve hours a day, I'm working for Jacksonville Collision Center right now because I had to go get a job because you all wouldn't let me have my shop but that's a different story. But I'm trying to show to you or try to get you to understand that everything that Frank had to throw away was money off his table. And you all would be the same way. That's like me walking into your garage in your house if you got a carport and you've got a bunch of stuff. . .junk you know, stuff stacked around, I might walk into your garage and say "man what are you going to do with all this junk". Well it's not junk to you because it's your personal items that you worked hard for and bought it with your own money. Everybody has got their own thing that they want to buy or have sitting around to work on. Frank uses all these parts and that's how he makes his living. If Frank can save himself some money from buying one of those motors, and he can take it inside there and he takes his arms and he rebuilds that motor, that's money on his table, he don't have to buy a motor. That's all I wanted to say, I appreciate your time. Mr. Bull: Thank you, I think that we're, in all due respect, I think that we are trying to work with him. We have, although we have certain laws that the city has put on the books that says you can and you can not do this and we are charged to deal with people who do not comply with the letter of that particular law. Myself, I concur with you, I may not necessarily. . . .have unanimous support on this Board but. . .we should have some leniency regarding Page 26 this action. Ed Patterson: Mr. Bull, I'm Ed Patterson, I live on Plaza and like the others here I'm a friend of Frank's and I'd like to say that he might need the forty five days because I was at his shop this afternoon for about an hour and in that hour a man brought in a motor that needs fixing and that motor. . . .and Frank is the only one who can fix it, and that motor is losing that man twelve hundred dollars a day until it gets fixed. Now Frank may need that day to fix that motor and this is why he may not be able to do this in thirty days. The Navy has a pump sitting in front of Frank's shop right now that they want installed on a pier which he told you he had to go back to work as soon as he leaves here to get that pump ready to go and be installed tomorrow on the pier to be . . . . what is it water Frank? Mr. Rebelo: Yes, water pump. Mr. Patterson: It's a water pump that the Navy needs and demands and wants and Frank is going to have to use tomorrow to put that pump out there. He's also got to fix the motor that came in while I was standing there. So he just may need the forty five days and he's not going to be able to drop all of this just to build a fence. Don Salbor (unsure of spelling) : I'm with Local Associates and we use Frank Rebelo for a lot of the jobs that we do out in Mayport. We have the maintenance contract on a supervisor four global and we do a lot of work and he's the best one that we have immediately available to us for a lot of the items we use for the maintenance contract through the Navy. I feel that he needs the forty five days. We have work pending right now that he can't touch, I'm talking thousands of dollars because of that time frame. I feel that if the Board would be lenient and give him the forty five days we'd appreciate that also. Page 27 Mr. Bull: Thank you, I really would like to hear comments from somebody who is not in favor of us being lenient with Mr. Rebelo or if he does not feel as though he has complied or is there anybody in the audience that has anything adversarial to say? Then I would assume that all of you are in favor of what Mr. Rebelo's been doing. Mr. Martin: Mr. Chairman are you ready for a motion? Mr. Bull: I'm ready for some kind of a motion and I'm not sure what kind of a motion we're going. . . . Mr. Martin: All right I'll make a motion. Mr. Bull: We might have four or five before we get one we like. Mr. Martin: I make the motion that we accept Mr. Rebelo's offer to build a fence in the next forty five days and that he be advised that in ninety days at the time of our next meeting he must present us with a detailed and concrete specific plan to become in compliance with the law either by building a building and the plans for it or by removing his outside storage. Ms. Perry: I second that. Mr. Bull: Any discussion? Mr. Dorsey: I think we better define, at least to some degree, what we mean by detailed plan, at least some kind of guide lines he's working with. Do we mean that he has to have a plan where he's going to begin at that time building it or is he to have a plan that he's going to begin in six months or. . . Mr. Bull: I think more than a plan would maybe be a program . . . .a program, a time schedule, some kind of time frame. . . Mr. Martin: A specific plan would have a start and a finish to what he's going to do and then if it's not early enough for us, we can take exception to it. If we agree to the time frame, it's all right or he has a plan that Page 28 says I now have ninety percent of my outside storage removed, the other ten would be removed in another thirty days because I'm going to store it such and such. I don't think we can restrict him or dictate to him which avenue he takes. But he knows what has to be done to get in compliance with the law, and it needs to be a plan that does help. Mr. Bull: The eventuality is to eliminate the outside storage. Period, 100%. Lets kind of leave it liberal for him, if that's all right with you. Mr. Dorsey: That's fine with me, I don't have any problem at all, I just. . . .as a matter of fact I'm more in agreement with your opinion, Chairman, that I think. . . .I mean I ride down Mayport Road and I agree with many of the people in the audience I think there are numerous eyesores, so that goes without saying. I think that if we have allowed this thing to perpetuate for a long period of time that even though the investigation has been going for two years, I think you've got to be reasonable in what you do especially in light of the things that people have said about the demands that are made on for his time. So I don't have any problems, I just didn't want to have us come in in ninety days and say this is not a plan or I really would rather be on a more liberal side of it and leave it that way but not to jerk the rug out from under him and say you didn't make progress because in my mind this is what progress is and he might have had something entirely different. Mr. Martin: The worst looking eyesore was on Plaza Road until recently. Mr. Bull: We have a motion on the floor and it's been seconded and Pete would like to add to it. Mr. Dowling: Would it be improper to ask Mr. Rebelo a question in the middle of our motions.? Mr. Bull: No. Page 29 Mr. Dowling: Mr. Rebelo as I said we have a responsibility to the people who have complained about the problem and I would like to know from you a little bit more about how long it would take you to move that nuisance. . . .those motors that are right out there in view from Mayport Road. Would you be able to move those before forty five days in any way behind. . . . Mr. Rebelo: Oh yes, like it was explained sir, I never know if I get a job like any of the companies I work for, sometimes they. . . .it depends of. . .I have some responsibilities and in a matter of days I'll have the fence up and I'll have the motors neatly behind the fence. I want to cooperate as much as I can because I'm a tax payer and the better the Mayport Road the more vital is my property. Mr. Dowling: So you're saying that you would rather be given the whole forty five days to do anything more. Mr. Rebelo: I can be given the thirty days but if I have an emergency I'll supply the proper proof that it is an emergency. Mr. Bull: Any more discussion, all in favor of the motion signify by saying aye. (all answered aye) . The ayes have it. So we'll see you, you can go ahead and construct the fence in forty five days, we'll see you back here in ninety days to let us know how you're progressing on either completely removing the storage or building a new building to house the storage or relocating or whatever. But we would like to have some kind of concrete program from you. Mr. Rebelo: One questions, I have at the present time three trailer over there, is that, can I keep the trailers over there for this time or is anything illegal from keeping I don't want to start something. . . Mr. Bull: I don't know, Don can he . . . Mr. Ford: He can store trailers there. Page 30 Mr. Dowling: Storage trailers, like covered trailers? Mr. Rebelo: Yes. Mr. Martin: They're behind his property line. Mr. Bull: Yes. . .as far as the city Building Inspector is concerned that's permissible. Mr. Dowling: Are the storage trailers permissible on a permanent basis? Mr. Rebelo: It wouldn't be permanent. Mr. Dowling: Even if you didn't intend for it to be permanent, I'm curious from the City Attorney or from Mr. Ford, are we allowed to call that inside storage. Mr. Ford: I'm not sure about that one, no. Mr. Jensen: What kind of trailers are they? Mr. Ford: They're tractor trailers. Mr.Jensen: That's permitted over there isn't. Mr. Ford: It's permitted in that zoning. Mr. Jensen: He can let them sit there empty or full. Mr. Bull: Well it's kind of hard to put a $40,000. . . .40,000 pound generator in a trailer though. Mr. Dowling: Well there are some heavy trailers, I looked into it today. Mr. Bull: I'm not going to adjourn this meeting because I've got something else to discuss and I'm glad Mrs. Tucker is here but I don't want to put Mrs. Tucker on the spot but I need to ask Mrs. Tucker a question since she was part of sending us a letter from the City Commission asking us to act on the Atlas Electric property. I don't know what this letter's about, was it about that the City Commission doesn't think we are doing our job or does the City Commission not concur with our procedures or does the City Commission. . .what does . . .obviously the City Commission hasn't been to our Page 31 meetings to see what we've been doing. And I don't really understand the purpose of the letter. Could Mrs. Tucker please tell me what the purpose of the letter was. Adelaide Tucker: I did not write the letter, I did not originate the letter, I will admit I believe it was from the City Commission. It was at the direction of the City Commission that the letter was written. But this has been going on a long time and if I'm not mistaken at one of our last Commission meetings they said that if we didn't finally get some teeth in the Board or something to this effect that no one was ever going to pay any attention and violations were going to continue. So it was encourage that the Code Enforcement Board be told that the Commission was concerned about when he was going to straighten out and Mr. Bull: Well I think we've been acting Mrs. Tucker: I think I'm the only one who has attended your meetings. Mr. Bull: Well I think Mr. Edwards attended one time I think but . . . .and we appreciate you attending but it was just a little perplexing to me that. . . . to get the letter from the City Commission with almost like instructing us to do something to Atlas Electric and we weren't doing our job and I in fact was very resentful of the letter, I think we are doing our job, we approach things. . . .and you can take this back to the City Commission if you will Mrs. Tucker, that we approach things maybe a little bit differently than the City Commission does but we take a look at all the avenues that are presented to us and we try and act fairly. I think we have acted fairly, if the City Commission has any problems with the way we're acting, they're certainly. . . . that's their prerogative to replace this Board or replace any member of this Board. We are going to continue to operate the way we have been operating, fairly and justly and if the City Commission has any problem with that they can take it up with us. Thank you. Page 32 Mr. Martin: I wouldn't attempt to change anything you said but along with that, if we had the problem that we had here. . . .as I understand it we did have a problem getting the City to go over and pick up some stuff at that. . .you had three calls and . . . .it might be that we might want to ask the City Commission for some assistance in getting some action when we ask for it. (applause) Mr. Ford: Can I address that Mr. Martin? Mr. Martin: Sure. Mr. Ford: I checked with Public Works and I stated this earlier in the meeting, and I know because I instigated this particular action when I was over there, every call that comes into Public Works is written into a log book, it's logged in. There was never a call from that property for pick up until the day after the last meeting, so in defense of Public Works, I'll have to say that. Mr. Martin: Well I thought the statement was made here that she (Karen Moore) called three times. Mr. Bull: No that was after our last meeting because I kept monitoring it and Karen would call, nothing would happen and I'd call Karen and I'd ask her would you please call Public Works and have it done. The people were calling me and it wasn't his reponsibility to get it picked up because it wasn't his. Mr. Ford: Excuse me, I might also add that the debris was still on private property up until a week to a week and a half ago. And Public Works can not go onto private property. Mr. Bull: Don, I call Claude all the time, I clean out my garage, he comes onto my property and picks it up all the time, I think if we can build great big City Halls we can certainly be more compassionate to our local citizens Page 33 and just do that. Yes sir. Frank Rebelo, Jr. : My name's Frank Rebelo, Jr. , I'd like . . . . I was working for my father approximately a month to a month and a half ago when Claude came over with Harry from the City and we showed them what was the problem and I know they were having some kind of a problem , but I took them back there myself and showed them what need to be taken care of. So I just went back there this week and I saw the truck and a front end loader there loading the stuff into . . . what ever that truck is the claw truck that picks it up, some of the stuff. . . .they came with a loader and I was there when it happened and I was. . . .like I said a month and a half ago was when I left and I'm still working for my father when they came over to the property. I don't know about the calls being logged, I don't know anything about that but what I do know is that he did try to get the stuff removed and there wasn' t any on his property and he took the time to take all that stuff and pile it up for him and everything. There were tires and mattresses and bottles and just all sorts of unsightly junk that had nothing to do with the business. Mr. Bull: Thank you, Ruth. Sorry Mrs. Tucker. Mrs. Tucker: I just want to clarify. . .go ahead Ruth. Ruth Gregg: What I'd like to tell these people is that, we haven't had anybody to recheck on these places. We give these people these licenses and we say no outside storage. Now you can check back on the records and you go back and look at the places that we have given permission and you'll see junk all over the place and that's why you said they're not doing anything. If you see junk cars, you' re suppose to report that to the Police Department. Gentleman in audience: Well I'll tell you what,I've watched the police down here, matter of fact David Archer and I took a little ride in his patrol car Page 34 to show him some things right off of Mayport Road. Now this has been less than a week ago. You know what they do? They hook a little orange tag. . . Mr. Bull: We really need to confine the verbiage to the case please. Mrs. Gregg: What I would like to say about. . .he talks about the trailers, I think that's really classified too as outside storage. Mr. Bull: I don't know, that's something we have to . . . .Don would have to determine. I don't know. Mrs. Tucker. Mrs. Tucker: I would just like to clarify, I have a copy of the letter in front of me. The original intent, I believe, that the Commission had was to emphasize the need to enforce the ordinance governing such unsightly conditions. Now you must admit, when did we adopt this Board. . . .1985, and this is 1990? If I'm not mistaken it was 1985 and we had . . . .well there was three years when we didn't even have a meeting or two years we didn't have a meeting. Mr. Bull: Well we didn't have a case we had some meetings. Mrs. Tucker: Right, but they have not been, whether the Code Enforcement Officer was busy or we didn't have. . . .what ever the reason, we have not been following through on . . . .someone has not been following through on unsightly conditions. Mr. Bull: We can only act on those cases, Mrs. Tucker, that are brought to us and we can't go out by law and solicit cases ourselves. Mrs. Tucker: We know that. Mr. Gammons: Well Mr. Bull then what you are saying is we need to start going out and bringing it all into you all? Mr. Bull: That's right. Mr. Gammons: I guarantee next month you'll have your hands full. Mr. Bull: Is there anything that needs to. . . .the only other instruction that I would like for Karen to do is would you please send a copy of our Page 35 minutes to the City Commission, please. Mrs. Moore: Yes sir. There being no other business, Mr. Bull adjourned the meeting. Ale George Bu !_� Chairman /6 Karen S. Mo e, Secretary