09-30-97 v MINUTES OF THE MEETING HELD BY COMMISSIONER BORNO IN CITY HALL AT
6:00 PM ON TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 30, 1997.
The meeting, which was held for the purpose of gathering ideas, information, collecting data and
receiving additional suggestions for solutions, and arriving at recommendations to present to the
City Commission regarding the drainage options for Howell Park, was called to order by
Commissioner Borno.
Commissioner Borno reported that he had received written communications from Donald Philips
and Alan Potter prior to the meeting and that those documents would be reviewed and evaluated.
A question was asked regarding who in the engineering firm was an expert on flora and fauna, and
what agencies, such as universities, etc. the city was consulting on this matter. Commissioner
Borno indicated he did not know but would provide this information in the packet to be prepared
for the Commission meeting on Thursday, October 2, 1997. (Questions attached, Exhibit 1).
A member of the Friends of Howell Park inquired whether alternatives which had been submitted
to the city had been considered.
Joe Zsomboran, 650 Palm Avenue, indicated he had experienced flooding in his area and was
opposed to the removal of so many trees. He inquired whether there was a federally mandated
deadline for compliance and was advised that there was no federal deadline. He inquired
regarding the capacity of the present drainage system and what data had been used to reach the
current recommendation; how much the proposed drainage improvements recommended by the
engineers would increase the drainage; the total depth and width of the basins; had a smaller scale
system in Howell Park and possible additional drainage elsewhere been considered. He felt
adequate information had not been provided to the public. He suggested the City Commission
consider appointing a committee whose members would be split between people opposed to the
project and people in favor of the project to consider all aspects of the matter and present
recommendations. (Questions attached, Exhibit 2).
Steve Foreaker, 387 6th Street, inquired regarding the purpose of the meeting. He felt that this
meeting would serve no purpose and felt the full commission should be involved. He inquired
why the engineers were not present and was advised that they were present. Commissioner
Borno advised that his task was to gather information regarding alternative solutions to present to
the City Commission.
Pete Dowling, 113 4th Street, agreed with Mr. Foreaker and the previous speaker. He requested
Hugh Mathews, of England Thims & Miller, to report on the alternatives which had been
considered by the engineers.
u • J L
rt.)
��9 - / ( A-dot t
•
Page Two
Commissioner Borno Meeting
September 30, 1997
J.P. Marchioli, 414 Sherry Drive, suggested that the configuration of the drainage on Sherry drive
be changed to divide the flow in three different directions. He felt this method would eliminate
approximately two-thirds of the tree removal. (Suggestion attached, Exhibit 3).
Stephen Kuti, 1132 Linkside Drive, inquired regarding the qualifications of the engineers in storm
water management. Hugh Mathews advised his firm had operated in Jacksonville since 1977 and
had approximately 15 - 20 registered engineers, several of whom were experienced with the City
of Jacksonville in storm water management reported on some specific projects in which their firm
had been involved.
Mr. Kuti indicated he hoped the engineers had considered the all the drainage ditches throughout
the city in the scope of the project. He indicated Vern Gwen (Phone 232-1108) of the Army
Corps of Engineers had advised him that federal funds could be available if the area to be drained
was at least one and one-half square miles, and the flow rate from a ten year storm was at least
800 cu. ft. per second . He suggested the city request the assistance of the Army Corps of
Engineers in seeking federal funds to undertake this job.
Denise Rubin, 229 Pine Street, requested that the engineers try to find a more environmentally
sensitive plan to solve the storm water drainage problems which would not hurt the city's parks.
Mr. Mathews reported his firm had been working on this project for approximately eighteen
months and had held several meetings/public hearings during which the entire project was
discussed. The residents of the Johnansen Park area had attended a meeting about a year ago and
had made their opinions known. He indicated that his firm had honored the requirements of the
St. Johns River Water Management District (SJRWMD) and the demands of the Florida
Legislature. He indicated that the SJRWMD requirements for drainage for a new development
would require a 12-acre lake. In consideration of the existing development and the environmental
issues, his firm has worked with the SJRWMD and the lake being proposed for Howell Park is
one-tenth of what is normally required, and only one-half of an acre of wetland will be impacted.
He felt the plan being proposed was environmentally sensitive.
Barbara Hopson, 760 Sherry Drive, felt the regardless of the requirements of the SJRWMD and
the State of Florida, the plan should receive the approval of the citizens of Atlantic Beach. She
felt other locations could be considered for storm water retention.
Alan Potter, 374 Second Street, referenced the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP)
Consent Order and indicated that this document did not address storm water management. He
felt that Howell Park was being sacrificed, in part, to build a storm system which was the will of
the City Commission, City Administration and some citizens. The project plans did not include
any information regarding deepening or widening the Selva Lagoon up to Fleet Landing culvert.
He felt this area could be used in lieu of Howell Park and felt this option should be
Page Three
Commissioner Borno Meeting
September 30, 1997
explored with the Country Club along with property ownership of the right-of-way. He also
suggested the installation of a storm water pump station near the Fleet Landing culvert would
control excessive flow during heavy rainfall periods. He indicated that the pump manufacturers
would provide plans for the pump stations, at no charge. He suggested the city seriously consider
acquiring land along the west side of the lagoon for storm water retention.
A member of the Friends of Howell Park indicated that while she was aware of the discussions
regarding Johansen Park drainage, she was unaware of similar discussions regarding the Howell
Park proposed drainage plan. She felt that it was ultimately, the responsibility of the City
Commission, not the engineers, to make the decision regarding the specifics of the project such as
the location of the retention ponds.
Mr. Potter indicated that the Selva Marina lagoon was dug by the Duval County Mosquito
Control District, and as such, state law did not require the city to obtain a SJRWMD permit to
maintain the lagoon. He felt the first thing the city should do is to enlarge the lagoon.
Hope Van Nortwick, 826 Ocean Boulevard, Chair of Atlantic Beach Tree Board, indicated the
Tree Board had reviewed the plans closely. She felt the citizens needed a forum where they could
receive answers. She felt there was a great deal of mis-information regarding the Selva Marina
lagoon, and she felt this area should be looked at more closely to see if it is a viable option. In the
event that the Selva Lagoon could not be used, then reconsider the Howell Park plan with a view
to minimizing the destruction of trees.
Don Phillips, 1566 Park Terrace West, inquired whether the SJRWMD would have to issue a
revised permit in the event the retention pond in Howell Park was reduced or eliminated. He also
inquired to what extent Atlantic Beach had to include retention ponds to be approved by the
SJRWMD.
Shireen Zsomboran, 650 Palm Avenue, favored using the existing wetland and the existing green
space for storm water retention, which she felt would minimize the destruction of the natural
areas. (Suggestions attached, Exhibit 6).
Roger Steinem, 366 Magnolia Street, inquired why Atlantic Beach residents had not been notified
of the proposed changes in Howell Park. The engineer reported a notice had been published in
the Florida Times Union, similar to public notice given on other projects.
Barbara Bonner, 463 Selva Lakes Circle, referred to the suggestion made earlier to widen the
Selva lagoon at Selva Lakes and felt removal of trees in connection with expansion of the lagoon
would meet with opposition of Selva Lakes residents.
Page Four
Commissioner Borno Meeting
September 30, 1997
Patricia Goelz, 1359 Beach Avenue, reported that while she had seen the plans for this project,
the matter never came before the Recreation Advisory Board for review. (Other questions
attached, Exhibit 7).
Barbara Hopson inquired into how the engineers had concluded that only one-half acre of
wetlands in Howell Park would be impacted by their proposed plan. She felt a greater area would
be impacted by the movement of machinery, the felling of trees, etc. Hugh Mathews responded
that the one-half acre referred to dealt only with the wetland impact. Other upland areas would
be impacted but the total area of the proposed lake at 5th Street entrance was .9 acres, and .5 acre
lake at the 7th Street entrance, totaling 1.4 acres of lake area. Of that lake area .4 acres exists
today and approximately one acre of new lake could be created. Mr. Mathews explained the
procedures which would be used by the contractors and indicated that there would not be
excessive clearing outside the pond area.
Diane Whitehead, 550 Sherry Drive, indicated the proposed retention pond would be within ten
feet of her back property line. She indicated she was concerned about the impact the project
would have on her property during the construction phase. She inquired whether any measures
were proposed to minimize disruption to property owners. Commissioner Borno indicated he
would check into her request.
Hope Van Nortwick reported the Tree Board would discuss this project in a special called
meeting at 6:00 pm on Monday, October 6, 1997 and invited those present to attend.
Stephen Kuti, 1132 Linkside Drive, referred to Mr. Potter's comments and agreed with his
suggestion that more pipes of smaller diameter would cause less impact and would provide equal
or better drainage. He also encouraged the city to work with the Corps of Engineers regarding
expanding the Selva lagoon, specifically to see if the city could benefit from their expertise at no
cost to the city.
Dorothy Kerber, 365 First Street, inquired who would be responsible for cleaning and maintaining
the lake, specifically any erosion of the banks due to heavy rainfall.
Cindy Corey pointed out that the 100 trees which would be removed were over 10" in diameter;
however, many other smaller trees would also have to be removed. She indicated she had
received a memo from Mr. Jarboe in which he had responded to many of their questions.
Fred Kerber, 375 First Street, suggested the city consider any available alternatives in case an
environmental issue, such as the discovery of an eagle's nest, prevented the work in Howell Park
to continue. He felt other back-up alternatives should be available. He suggested the city
consider deepening instead of widening the lagoon to increase the retention area.
Page Five
Commissioner Borno Meeting
September 30, 1997
J.P. Marchioli, 414 Sherry Drive, indicated that he had attended all the meetings where drainage
had been discussed and he felt informed regarding the project. He said that discussions had
always indicated that Howell Park would be used for drainage, but he was not aware of the
specifics until the plans were complete.
Susan Bullock, Nautical Boulevard, inquired whether the project plans could be made available
for inspection in the public library. She felt it was difficult for residents to get to City Hall during
business hours.
Roger Steinem inquired regarding how much the engineers were being paid to design the project,
and whether any provision was being made to protect the animals and birds whose habitat would
be destroyed.
Vicky Sullivan, 282 Pine Street, felt that the entire ecosystem should be considered, and not just
the matter of tree removal.
Alan Potter, Second Street, said that his calculations had indicated that a total of 1.78 acres
would be disturbed for the ponds. He clarified his earlier comment regarding acquiring land to
widen the Selva lagoon westerly and indicated that only the easterly 50 feet or about two acres of
the seven acre parcel would be required.
Pete Dowling, 113 4th Street, felt that if England Thims & Miller could not come up with more
creative solutions regarding the Howell Park drainage, the city should consider contacting another
engineering firm to come up with alternative solutions; however, he hoped England, Thims&
Miller could provide an acceptable alternative solution.
Alan Potter felt a most important issue which should be addressed by the City Commission was
that the Consent Order did not order the city to do any storm drainage work; it just directed the
city to stop spilling raw sewage into the storm drainage system. He felt the City Commission was
laboring under mis-information on this issue, which was not fair to any of the parties involved.
Commissioner Borno thanked everyone for their input and indicated he would put a packet
together for the City Commission, addressing the various issued raised, and adjourned the
meeting.
Minutes transcribed by
Maureen King
Certified Municipal Clerk
4. F
MINUTES OF THE WORKSHOP MEETING OF THE CITY COMMISSION HELD IN
COMMISSION CHAMBERS AT 6:00 PM ON MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 22, 1997.
The meeting, which was held for the purpose of reviewing the Evaluation and Appraisal Report of
the City's Comprehensive Plan, was called to order by Mayor Fletcher.
Present, in addition to the Mayor, were Commissioners Borno, Meserve, Rosenbloom and
Shaughnessy. Also present were City Manager Jarboe and City Clerk King.
Community Development Director George Worley explained that adoption of the evaluation and
Appraisal Report would not prohibit the city from amending the Comprehensive Plan in the
future, but a review and self evaluation of the plan was required at this time by the State of
Florida.
Discussion ensued and no major issues or concerns were raised regarding the report. Mr. Worley
explained that a resolution to adopt the plan was on the agenda of the City Commission meeting
to follow this workshop.
Discussion ensued regarding communication with other governmental entities. It was felt the city
should strive toward better cooperation with the city of Jacksonville and that the Interlocal
Agreement with Jacksonville should be reviewed periodically to make sure that Atlantic Beach is
receiving the benefits specified therein. Some concern was also expressed regarding the density
of developments in Jacksonville, which would have an impact on Atlantic Beach and it was agreed
that city staff should work closely with Jacksonville regarding such developments.
There being no further discussion, the Mayor declared the meeting adjourned at 6:40 PM.
Maureen King
Certified Municipal Clerk