Agenda Item #1B - Workshop Minutes 3-12-14AGENDA ITEM # 1 B
MAY 12,2014
MINUTES OF THE WORKSHOP OF ATLANTIC BEACH CITY COMMISSION
HELD IN THE COMMISSION CHAMBER ON MARCH 12, 2014
City Commission Members present:
Mayor Carolyn Woods
Mayor Pro Tern Mark Beckenbach
Commissioner Jimmy Hill
Commissioner Maria Mark
Commissioner Jonathan Daugherty (arrived at 5:38p.m.)
Staff present:
Nelson VanLiere, City Manager
Richard Komando, City Attorney
Donna Bartle, City Clerk
Nancy Bailey, Recording Secretary
Call to order.
The meeting, which was held for the purpose of discussing the Human Rights Ordinance (HRO), was
called to order at 5:00 p.m. by Mayor Woods. She stated this was an emotional issue and reminded
everyone to be civil and respectful to each other at all times.
Commissioner Mark stated she understood the purpose of moving this item to a workshop was for the
Commission to have this discussion and decide whether to move forward with a Human Rights
Ordinance for Atlantic Beach. She asked if that was the purpose of the workshop, then what was the
purpose of the speaker who is on the agenda. She stated she can't imagine anything else being said that
has not already been said on both sides of the issue over the past meetings and workshops that have been
held on this issue and presumed that they, as a Commission, are at the crossroads to decide if they want
to move forward with adopting a Human Rights Ordinance. She stated she does not believe they should
have a speaker on the opposing side speak without the opportunity to have someone who supports it be
able to speak. She stated if the Commission allows this person to speak, she believes it would only be
fair and equitable to have someone from the other side who supports the HRO to speak after this person
and be given the same amount of time. Otherwise, she stated, she would say not allow any guest
speakers, and allow the Commission to discuss this as the workshop is intended to do.
Commissioner Hill explained the guest speaker was invited by him because he had several questions
coming to him from quite a few sources related to this and our resources available to us are very limited
on this. He stated this is a fairly complex issue and they are about to put a law into place without
hearing what the bad part of that law is, which is a big part of his concern. He stated he is for providing
a non-discriminatory environment for our community but there is a ve1y deep depth of information they
have not seen. He stated he would be in favor of opening equal time for as many speakers from any side
who want to speak.
Discussion ensued.
Commissioner Mark stated her speaker is Can1ngton Madison Mead.
It was determine they would allow the attorneys to speak to the legal side of both issues for 15 minutes
each.
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City Attorney Komando answered several questions from the Commission regarding litigation issues.
Further discussion ensued.
Commissioner Daugherty arrived at 5:38p.m.
Mayor Woods asked Mr. Komando if the City would be sued for anything that is in this Ordinance. He
stated he can't give a confi1mation that the City wouldn't be sued but the way the Ordinance is written it
would be the businesses or the person, according to the Ordinance, who is offending, who would have to
defend that lawsuit. He stated, is there the potential for the City to be included; you can't stop
somebody from including the City but the way the Ordinance is written now, it would be the person who
engaged in the discriminatory behavior would be the one who would have to defend themselves.
Discussion ensued.
Mr. Komando stated he has received multiple inputs on the business issue and that is where he would
like to get some sort of consensus as to what they want or he could be drafting things until the end of
time. Following discussion, he further explained some exemptions that are outlined in case law to
provide protection to some businesses.
1. Guest Speaker-Attorney Roger Gannam to speak on the HRO.
Roger K. Gannam, Esq., partner in the Jacksonville, Florida law firm Lindell & Farson, P.A.,
explained his background and gave a presentation related to the HRO, stating this law in concept is not
good for Atlantic Beach, is not necessary, will cause more discrimination than it prevents, and will cause
real harm to individuals and businesses based on some of the issues they have already discussed. He
stated Federal and State law already provide a prohibition against discrimination on the basis of sex,
race, national origin, color, religion, age, and disability. He stated this law, even though it addresses all
of those issues is not adding anything to the categories; the only category this law is adding is a sexual
orientation and gender identity or expression. He stated this is a gay and transgender rights ordinance.
He stated anytime a law like this is passed it becomes a threat to religious liberty of the individuals and
the business owners in the community where it is passed. He discussed the case of Elaine Photography
in New Mexico. He stated the proposed Ordinance is giving an immediate right to sue where there
wasn't one before. He answered questions from the Commission.
Carrington Madison Mead, Esq. explained she was a lesbian and a practicing lawyer. She addressed
the discrimination faced by lesbians and transgenders. She explained the procedures involved in
transitioning. She addressed the cross fit discrimination case. To explain gender expression, she gave a
demonstration with Commissioner Hill. Discussion ensued between Commissioner Hill and Ms. Mead
regarding expression. She answered questions from the Commission.
Commissioner Beckenbach left the meeting at 6:43 p.m. He returned at 6:45 p.m.
Discussion ensued. Mayor Woods asked the City Attorney how they should word the Ordinance so the
City is not opening up themselves and innocent people to indecent exposure. Mr. Komando stated
similar to the examples where there are criminal defendants who employ the Stand Your Ground
defense, despite that defense being meritless, he cannot assure the Commission that some person may
not try to use the defense; however, he is not aware of any anti-discrimination protection that has been
used successfully to defend against criminal behavior.
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Ms. Mead further explained the procedures to transition medically from male to female and female to
male. Discussion ensued regarding the issue of trans genders entering female restrooms.
Commissioner Mark left the meeting at 7:19p.m. She returned at 7:24p.m.
Further discussion ensued. Ms. Mead answered additional questions from the Commission.
Mayor Woods recessed the meeting at 7:32p.m. She reconvened the meeting at 7:43p.m.
2. Discussion on HRO memo and proposed ordinance.
Mayor Woods stated she received a handout from a gentleman, representing Veterans for Peace, who
said they have been working on exacting the language for the Jacksonville ordinance HRO Jax 2014 and
he gave her his thoughts on that topic. She gave a copy ofthe draft to the City Clerk and asked that she
distribute a copy to each of the Commissioners.
Mayor Woods asked if they want to set a time ce1tain for this meeting. Commissioner Mark stated the
better question is how far they want to go with the ordinance. She asked if they feel they are prepared to
start drilling this down and talking about specific areas where they may want more clarification on.
Commissioner Daugherty stated he believes this is an issue for the State level. Discussion ensued on the
HRO.
Mayor Woods stated there are a lot of people in this community that this affects and she would like the
Commission to keep working on this. She stated they don't have to rush through this. She stated she is
not ready to give up.
Commissioner Hill stated he believes they have tried to apply the wrong tool to this. He believes the
time they are spending on this is doing a disservice to the other issues that are not being focused on. He
stated he agrees that it is important and believes they have to do something with it. He stated he
believes they should put language before the voters in a referendum vote. He stated the word
"expression" should not be left in the ordinance because it is too vague.
Mayor Woods stated, first, they have to have something for the citizens to vote on. She stated what she
believes she is hearing is that they do want to continue the process and believes they should each go
through the ordinance word by word and bring their issues back.
Further discussion ensued.
Mayor Woods stated it is getting late and they have a lot of people to listen to. She asked that they set
another workshop in about a month and asked the City Manager to set a meeting. Commissioner Mark
asked that each Commissioner give input to the City Attorney as to what their concerns are and what
changes they would like to see, what they would like to include or exclude so when they meet again they
can really have a meaningful conversation about trying to drill this down. It was the consensus of the
Commission to meet again in a month.
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3. Courtesy of the Floor
Mayor Woods limited the Courtesy of the Floor to one minute per speaker.
Tyja Sullivan, 458 Mako Drive, spoke in opposition to the HRO.
Alison Brown, 10 Tenth St. #64, spoke in support of the HRO.
Rosalind Hoffman, 266 Magnolia St., spoke in support of the HRO.
Jane Kosut, 1969 Sevilla Blvd. W., spoke in support of the HRO.
Mark Hill, 1726 Selva Marina Dr., spoke in support of the HRO.
James West, 1445 Seminole Rd., spoke in support of the HRO. As requested by Commissioner Hill
earlier in the meeting, he gave an example of discrimination he witnessed at an established Atlantic
Beach barber shop of a gay man being overcharged because he was gay and the barber stating he hoped
he didn't come back because he was not welcome there.
Judy Sheklin, 1985 Brista De Mar Circle, spoke in support of the HRO.
Ann Simpson, 420 Snapping Turtle Ct. E., spoke in support of the HRO.
Wells Todd, 1761 Sea Oats Drive, spoke in support of the HRO.
Paul Crandall, 1448 Laurel Way, spoke in opposition of the HRO.
Brenda Hanbury, 1874 Tierra Verde, spoke in support of the HRO.
Heather Downs, 375 3rd St., spoke in support of the HRO.
Maryann Dyal, 1765 Seminole Rd., spoke in support ofthe HRO.
Suzanne Barker, 1938 Beachside Ct., spoke in support of the HRO.
Don Peters, 1902 N. Sherry Drive, spoke in support of a referendum for the HRO.
Chris Jorgensen, 92 W. 3rd St., spoke in opposition to the HRO.
Michelle Lomeux, 1096 Bertha St., Jacksonville, spoke in opposition to the HRO.
Kris Matson, 540 Hopkins St., Neptune Beach, spoke in support of the HRO.
Rosan Lorizza, 721 Neptune Lane, Neptune Beach, spoke in support of the HRO.
Marina Hodgini, 721 Neptune Lane, Neptune Beach, spoke in support of the HRO.
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Sharon Krause, 4845 Plymouth St., Jacksonville, spoke in opposition to the HRO.
Raymond Johnson, 3036 Stratton Lane, Jacksonville, spoke in opposition to the HRO. He presented
125 petitions to the Commission of people who were against the HRO.
James Eddy, 222 Lawton Avenue, Jacksonville, spoke in support of the HRO.
Lyn Lazarus, 540 Hopkins St., spoke in support of the HRO.
Bill Wilder, 1512 Ira Lou Road, Jacksonville, spoke in support ofthe HRO.
Nicholas deVilliers, 4510 Attleboro St., Jacksonville, spoke in support of the HRO.
Linda Huffman, 50116th AvenueS., Jacksonville Beach, spoke in support of the HRO.
Dan Merkan, 3159 College St., Jacksonville, spoke in support of the HRO but stated he was against
putting it on a referendum.
Carrington Mead, 3948 Anvers Blvd., Jacksonville, spoke in support ofthe HRO.
Linda Swafford, 9690 Taylor Field Rd., Jacksonville, spoke in opposition to the HRO.
Raoul Sanchez, 1445 Seminole Rd., spoke in support of the HRO.
Jessica Osborne, 715 Trekor Avenue, Jacksonville, Statewide Field Manager for Equality Florida,
spoke in support of the HRO, stating they have approximately 1000 people who have signed their pledge
in support of passing the HRO in Atlantic Beach. She stated she can provide that to the Commission.
Mayor Woods asked that she do that.
Adjournment
There being no further discussion by the City Commission, Mayor Woods declared the meeting
adjourned at 8:59p.m.
Donna L. Bartle, CMC
City Clerk
Carolyn Woods
Mayor