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03-12-75 v WILLIAM S. HOWELL CITY OF ATLANTIC BEACH R. C. VOGEL Mayor-Commissioner City Manager P. O. DRAWER 25 F.W. FOGG ATLANTIC BEACH, FLORIDA 32233 OLIVER C. BALL Commissioner City Attorney (904) 249-2303 ROBERT R. ROSBOROUGH II MRS. JUNE KNIGHT Commissioner City Clerk MRS.EMMA M.STEPHENS L.W.MINTON,JR. City Treasurer-Comptroller Commissioner ROBERT B.COOK,SR. CARL STUCK! Commissioner March 12, 1975 Chief of Police and Fire Department RICHARD HILLIARD Director of Public Works TO: THE CITY COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF ATLANTIC BEACH SPECIAL CALLED MEETING This is to advise that I am calling a special meeting on Thursday, March 13, 1975 at 8:00 P.M. for the purpose of re-considering Specifications #75-3 "Police Patrol Cars" and any other business that may need commission consideration. Yours very truly, Z/if R. C. Vogel City Manager RCV/chh Special Called Meeting of the City Commission, March 1 , 1975 Minutes Recorded Verbatim Mayor Howell The purpose of this special called meeting is to re-consider the Specifications #75-3 "Police Patrol Cars' R. C. Vogel I called this special meeting in order to take corrective action. The letter is self-explanatory and that ' s all I 've got to say. I 've said it all. Mayor Howell Lets back up and commence from the beginning. Apparently when the bids were opened there were in fact four bids. One from Platt Pontiac, and three separate bids from Lee Chevrolet. Where are the bids Mrs. Knight? Mrs. Knight Mr. Vogel has them. Mayor Howell One from Platt Pontiac for $14,404.00; one from Lee Chevrolet for $14,600.00; another one from Lee Chevrolet for $13,760.00 and another one for $13,020.00. Apparently what happened is that two of the bids were overlooked, which is certainly understandable because they were all tacked together and it would appear on first blush that Lee Chevrolet had one bid of $14,600 .00 . Now, I think we have got to take things in theie proper order. There seems to be some con- fusion and not being here maybe I am wrong in some of the assumptions that I have gathered from the verbatim minutes and from looking over the bids. The first assumption on my part is that the bid of $14,600.00, which was given by Lee Chevrolet. Mr. Ohler, the representative of Lee Chevrolet, asked to be heard from the audience and requested that he be allow to reduce his bid by $261.00 due to the fact that he seem to be confused on what a radio was and so he had included in his bid of $14,600 .00 AM-FM radios and if he would be allowed to pull out the AM-FM radios that he could reduce his bid by $261.00 Minutes, Verbatim, March 13, 1975 , Page Two Mayor Howell and thereby bringing him under the low bidder. Now, there was a statement where it was questioned. What happened apparently at this point in time when they are talking about the reduction of the bid, Commissioner Cook said "I do not think it would be ethical for us to allow him to second guess the bid after it is opened. But, if he has it written down" at this point Mr. Rosborough said"he' s got $216 to add for AM-FM" . Prior to that Mr. Ohler stepped in and said "in an alternate" . If you turn back here you will find that he said "add for AM-FM $261.00" but this is on an entirely different bid. It ' s on his second bid and it ' s on his third bid. Now, apparently in his first bid of $14,600 .00 he included it. In his second and third bid he said "if you want this add it" . I don' t know exactly where that leaves anybody except that he said he was confused but apparently he wasn' t confused on the second and third bid because he said if you want AM-FM you add it. On the first one he just included it. There was one other thing here that Mr. Vogel pointed out and I am inclined to agree with him. The bid when it was let, even with the reduction of the $261.00, there was no provision in the motion for the award of the bid to Lee Chevrolet to waive certain certain other exceptions to the bid. This would have put the Chief of Police in the situation of having to accept auto- mobiles that did not meet the bids and which the City Commission did not authorize the waiver of those specifications. To wit: Chevrolets ' bid of 4 BB in lieu of 2 BB and also one other minor technically that the bid requires a factory installed radio and apparent- ly at least two of these automobiles would not have installed radios . That is where we sit at this point in time. The whole situation is this --- if this City Commission wants to award this bid to Lee Chevrolet, I would assume if they wish to do so, and I am not going to be- labor the legal point of this thing, but assuming that legally they can do so certainly in the motion it should have been stipulated Minutes, Verbatim, March 1a, 1975, Page Three Mayor Howell that the specifications for the 2 BB be waived and the specification for factory installed radios be waived, and the specification for $100.00 a day for penalty for every day after 24 hours be waived. There were several things that should have been waived so that the man who had to accept them, namely the Chief of Police, was not put on a spot. That ' s where we stand at this point in time. I think. Commissioner Minton There is only one question I would like to ask and I wasn't here either, but you received the same bid specifications that Lee Chevrolet did? Mr. Martin Yes Commissioner Minton And you were low bidder at the time. Is that correct? Mr. Martin I was not here. My bid was $14,400.00. Commissioner Minton Was he the low bidder? Mr. Vogel Yes sir. Commissioner Minton It ' s beyond my understanding, and maybe I am wrong, you cannot change a bid ethically at the bid opening . If his bid was low, he should have been awarded the bid. As I said, I was not here. I could change my bid on drug openings if someone would let me know after drug bids had been opened where I could change one way or the other. If his bid met the specifications and he was low I don 't see how he could change his bid to make it lower than Platts. How could we award it to Lee? Ethically, he was the lowest bidder. This guy from Lee Chevrolet had the same opportunity to bid one way or the other as you did. He came in $200.00 under. If I am wrong someone can enlighten me. Mayor Howell Rob, can you throw any light on what happened and what went on. Minutes, Verbatim, March 13, 1975, Page Four Commissioner Rosborough You can read it right there. Mr. Vogel will read it to you and tell you all about it. Mayor Howell Well, I don' t know what to do at this point in time, but we have got to do something. What do you want to do? Commissioner Rosborough You might ask Mr. Vogel what he wants to do. He seems to be calling all the shots now. Mr. Vogel That ' s not so, Mr. Commissioner. Commissioner Rosborough Who gave you the authority to call up Lee Chevrolet after we had approved and passed the measure to authorize him to furnish the automobiles? Who gave you the authority to call them up and cancel the order? Who gave you the authority to call the meeting? I have been on this board for eight years and the only person that has ever called a special meeting is the Mayor. Mr. Vogel Mr. Commissioner, if you will look in the charter, the City Manager is authorized to call a meeting . I did what I thought was the best for your interest and the city' s interest. I am the Chief Administrative Officer of this city and I did what I, in my judgement, was in your interest and the city ' s interest. Commissioner Rosborough It appears that somebody wants Pontiacs around this City of Atlantic Beach. Mr. Vogel I could say the same thing . It appears to me that somebody wants some Chevrolets around Atlantic Beach. If the shoe fits -- wear the pair. The man was low. He wasn 't even here and you jacked around this bid (interupted by Rosborough) Commissioner Rosborough If he wasn't here, that ' s his fault. Minutes, Verbatim, March 13, 1975, Page Five Mr. Vogel He let his bid speak for him. Now, if you want to jack things around, this man could have been here . If that ' s the way we are going to open bids and say well, who wants to argue about this thing -- who wants to deduct and how are we going to get this thing beat down and who wants to out-argue who? He could say I 'vd got whitewall tires, I 've got wheel covers and I included all of those in the bid but I will take them off. If he had wanted to enter a bunch of chain bids as this man did -- we didn't call for four or five bids from one man. We called for one bid and that ' s what you thought you had. I was sitting right here next to you and you didn't know you had two other bids . Commissioner Rosborough Well, that' s true. Mr. Vogel Alright, let ' s face facts. Commissioner Rosborough But, the $261 .00 was in there. Mr. Vogel It was in there on another damn bid. Another damn bid and you did not know it. Mayor Howell Calm down. Mr. Vogel You know its the truth. You won't admit that you make a damn mistake. Mayor Howell Alright, Bob, that ' s enough. Commissioner Rosborough I did not make any mistake. Mr. Vogel You damn sure did. You just don't want to admit that you made a mistake. Commissioner Rosborough I ask the man -- look, are you pulling this figure out of the air (interupted by Vogel) Mr. Vogel He didn't pull it out of the air. He pulled it out of a chain bid. Commissioner Rosborough He said no. Mayor Howell Gentlemen, lets keep things just as they should be and lets go over this thing technically . Minutes, Verbatim, March 13 , 1975, Page Six Mayor Howell First of all, on the bid of $14,600 .00 his bid says -- includes AM-FM radios. That'&all it says . On the bid of $13, 760 .00, which was not read, it says "add for AM-FM radio $261.00 . " On his bid of $13, 020.00, which was not read, it says "for AM-FM radio add $261.00" . Now, getting back to the point. He says here, "I am Hank Ohler from Lee Chevrolet. Your specifications are not clear on one item. I know from practice that you people are using AM-FM radio in your surveilance work. Our bid does include that and that reflects a cost of $261.00 included in our bid. I have so stated that they are included. " Your bid did not call for that but yet on his other bid he says --"add if you want it $261.00" , but on this one he didn't. Mr. Vogel He also didn 't say "take it off if you didn 't want it. Mayor Howell Now, the question that pops into my mind -- if he was confused, why didn't he call on the telephone? Why didn 't he bid $14,600.00 less $261.00 and say if you want AM-FM radio -- add $261.00. I don' t know and Mr. Ohler is not here. Was Mr. Ohler notified? Mr. Vogel I called him this afternoon. Mayor Howell He was notified. Mr. Vogel Mr. Mayor I would like to ask Mr . Fogg a question. Commissioner Fogg You may, if it is alright with the Mayor Mayor Howell Go ahead. Mr: Vogel Did you understand that there were four bids submitted the other night? Commissioner Fogg No Sir. Mr. Vogel When did you first learn that there were four bids2 Commissioner Fogg When I saw these things (unable to understand reply) Minutes, Verbatim, March 1.3, 1975, Page Seven Commissioner Fogg However, it was my impression from sitting here, that the $261.00 was just like the man said it was . Mayor Howell I know he said it. Commissioner Fogg I don't think Mr. Rosborough or Mr. Cook and myself knowingly or willingly (unable to under- stand) Mayor Howell There is no question about that . Commissioner Fogg Now, if the City Attorney said we did it wrong, I am for straighting it out. If we did not do it wrong --- I think we proceeded on what we had to go on properly. Mr. Vogel If you will notice in this letter, I tried to point that out. Mr. Rosborough made the statement "Gentlemen, this is an emergency measure and I will leave it up to the commission to make a motion. Platt Pontiac bid $14,404.00 and Lee bid $14,600 .00" . Then, Mr. Hank Ghler said "may I say something"? From that point on we were shot down. We were mislead by half truths and evasion. If you will remember back, this is a verbatim transcript of everything that was said and if he didn 't try to mislead this commission --- my Mother is a monkey. Commissioner Rosborough Mr. Vogel, how do you mean he tried to mislead us? He showed us in writing that it was $261.00 for the AM-FM radio. That ' s not misleading, its written right down there on the forms. Mr. Vogel I have gone to a lot of bid openings in my time . I sat there with my heart just a pounding be- cause I had bids in there and my reputation was on the line. We had bid bonds set up and your always nervous until that first bid is opened to make sure that you are in the ball park. That you had not forgotten something and never have I ever seen, unless it was drawn up in the specifications , you've got a alternate -- in other words they want an alternate so that they can either add to or subtract from what ever they are bidding on. If there is an alternate that is allowed to be taken off, its their pleasure, but you bid on that alternate. Minutes, Verbatim, March 13, 1975, Page Eight Mr. Vogel You bid on alternate number one, two, three and four that you add or subtract from the original bid these alternates. Everybody bids the same thing. What you did here was you created an alternate after the bid was opened and the man ' s low price was revealed. As I said in the bottom here -- "It is my opinion that if Lee Chevrolet had intended for this to be an item of choice in the "A" bid, they would have bid $14, 339.00 with the option of adding $261 .00 " as they did in the other two bids. If they had been the low bidder there would have been no arguements. We would have AM-FM radios in cars right now. Commissioner Rosborough I think he explained in those other two that they were not in there already and that was the purpose of why he put the figure in there. In the interest to the city (interupted by Vogel) Mr. Vogel By the same mechanics they could have been done the same way as these were. They were not in but you put them in with an alternate. If they were already in, he could take them out with an alternate. He could either put his bid in $14, 339.00 add for the radios or put it in $14,600 .00 and subtract for the radios. But we would not have had a choice (interupted by Mr. Fogg) . Commissioner Fogg I got the impression that (unable to understand) the AI1=FM radios were already installed in the car. What if 4 BB carburetors are already installed in the car? You can 't change them Mr. Vogel We did not want 4 BB carburetors. The Chief has related this to me. Commissioner Fogg You did not explain it last Monday night. You explained it in this letter since then. Mr. Vogel Well, I don't like to take up the commissions valuable time trying to explain why we put things in the specifications. Commissioner Fogg I had rather known it Monday night, than tonight. Minutes, Verbatim, March 13, 1975, Page Nine Commissioner Minton Were all the bids sent out with the same specifications? Mr. Vogel They were all the same. Now is you will allow me to explain that just a little bit better. I did not put it all in the letter but the reason that 4 BB don't work for police cars because it ' s sitting idle through through a single exhaust pipe it won't work. Through a duel exhaust pipe it will work. Commissioner Fogg I understand that now that I have been told. Mr. Vogel I probably was negligent in not going into that, but, the way the thing was going I would probably have been like Commissioner Rosborough said awhile ago, accussed of wanting Pontiacs. I did not know even what kind of Pontiac they were bidding and the transcript shows that. I asked what kind of car it was . I did not know that it was a Pontiac. I 've never seen this man before until he brought his bid in. I did not know what company he was from at that time. I don ' t give a damn what kind of car we get. I don ' t have to put up with them. I was trying to satisfy the Chief. Mayor Howell Excuse me for just a moment. May I ask who you are? Bob Martin Bob Martin from Platt Pontiac. Commissioner Minton Why weren 't you at the other meeting? Mr. Martin Simply because we bid hundreds of cars for the City of Jacksonville and have never attended a bid opening on a sealed bid. We submit our bid in a sealed envelope and wait to hear the results. Mayor Howell Mr. Martin, when were you notified of this meeting tonight? Mr. Martin Yesterday afternoon. Commissioner Minton Lee was notified at the same time? Mr. Martin Well, I called down here and asked to see what was happening on the bids. In fact, I call back down today to confirm it. Minutes, Verbatim, March 13, 1975, Page Ten Mayor Howell May I ask one thing and this I don't have dear? I have got to ask you or either you, Rob. I don't know. Was the bid awarded to Lee Chevrolet on the basis primarily of the fact that when he took the radios out or didn't put them in, or whatever the case may be, he was able to reduce his bid and then came in at a lesser bid than Platt Pontiac? Commissioner Fogg Essentially, yes. In other words, Platt Pontiac (interupted by Mayor Howell) Mayor Howell I am going to ask the original low bidder a question. If you had been here, what could you deduct from the cost of your bid, or the price of your bid, without effecting the specifications that would have lowered you bid? Mr. Martin Well, there are several things on the cars that we bid aren' t call for in the specification but what we consider normal equipment. There is a fact that there is a 24 hour delivery clause in there, we could not help it. The things that are on there have to stay and thats the way I bid it. Plus the fact Chief Stucki saw the cars without bids sitting on our lot and that is the way I bid them and I wouldn 't take anything off of them. The first thing that comes to my mind is that all the cars have deluxe wheel covers . The factory price on them is $3 .00 per each car. They could be deducted although I did not bid them that way. This would be a total of $90 .00 on my bid. There are other things that are minor -- in fact most of them are things that cannot be removed from the car. Tinted glass which was not specified in the specifications. It can't be taken off now but they are on the automobiles. Mr. Vogel Do you' ll have an upholstery shop that can re-upholster a car as good as the factory does it? Mr. Martin No a Minutes, Verbatim, March 13 , 1975, Page 11 Commissioner Minton He said he was going to re-upholster the car. Mr. Vogel That was the one that hit me right there. Commissioner Minton I wasn' t here. I don't know. All I can do is read the transcripts of what went on and then properly decide what is right. Lord knows I would probably read things that are really are not on there, but, we can' t set a precedent of letting people work out their seal bid when it is opened. If they meet our specificatior I don' t know -- we should have awarded them the Bid. Commissioner Rosborough Wes, let me say this -- that I agree with you 100%. There is no question about it. The fact that on Lee Chevrolets he had typed on there what it included AM-FM radio. It wasn ' t that he was saying, well, we ' ll take the wheel covers off or we will take come of the trim off and cut the bid. It was written right on the front of the bid that it included AM-FM radio. He did not arbitrarily take a figure out of the head so that he would be the lower. He used a figure that was written on these other two bids . I was derelict in not seeing . I just was not aware that there were other bids there. A lot of papers stapled together and I just did not see them. But, then he pointed out that the $261.00 was the cost of AM-FM radios and so consequently we assumed that, inasmuch as he had it written on the front, that we could take the $261 .00 out of his bid. We have the prerogative to reject or accept any bids . That ' s in all the specs . Commissioner Minton Yes, this is true. Commissioner Rosborough In the best interest of the city, with a comparable car, same wheel base, same size automobile -- they were low. I 've known Queasy Platt for 40 years or more. He ' s a good friend of mine. I don't know anything about Lee. This was the basis that we awarded the contract to Lee Chevrolet. Minutes, Verbatim, March 13, 1975, Page 12 Commissioner Minton Did you have any AM-FM radios --- Mr. Martin No, when I came down to inspect the trade-ins, I mentioned that fact that the cars that I was looking at, current patrol cars, have AM-FM radios and asked the specific question, did you want them bid with AM-FM radios? Chief Stucki told me "no" that AM was sufficient. Commissioner Minton Did he understand that these were not to be bid? Commissioner Fogg It was his understanding and our understanding that he did not use the FM. Commissioner Minton The only question I want to ask this gentlemen is if they got the same bid as Lee Chevrolet. Mr. Vogel Yes sirWe sent them off in duplicate. We type them up on a stencil and run it off on the mimeograph. Commissioner Minton Certainly, we want to be fair and certainly we want to save the taxpayer money, just like Rob said. Commissioner Rosborough I think it an exorbitant price to pay anyhow. $4700.00 for a car. I 'd venture to say that anyone of us could go in there and buy a comparable car for that or less. Mr. Vogel Is that what it figures out -- $4700.00 per car? Commissioner Rosborough Yes, three times $4700 .00. Mr. Vogel Police specials are a lot cheaper. Commissioner Minton Well, I know one thing, we are going to have to decide something tonight . As I understand it, we are really in bad need of cars. Commissioner Rosborough This was one of the reasons of the emergency measure to get the thing rolling. Mr. Vogel This is where haste, makes waste. You ' ll agree with that. Minutes, Verbatim, March 13, 1975, Page 13 Commissioner Rosborough I will agree with that . Mr. Vogel I assure this commission that I did not have any ulterior motive in calling this meeting and calling that man and telling him to hold up. I guess it ' s because of the experience I have had in opening bids and I don't know whether you gentlemen have noticed but every bid that Pappy Parks lets, if there are any changes in the specifications he puts out an addendum and he also provides for alter- natives that would be nice to have if the bid is low enough to include it in what money we have to do this with, but they can be done without and he outlines, etc. If there is something he would like to add, depending on the circumstances at the time, they have an addendum for adding. We did not call for any- thing out of the ordinary or anything that was deluxe. All we were trying to do was to get "wheels" . I had a call this afternoon from the representative of the chevrolet company down here, he insist that those cars are still on the way. He wanted to explain to this commission that Sutherlin Chevrolet was not at fault, the company ' s factory where the order was placed was closed down. Commissioner Rosborough Has it been cancelled? We are liable to wind up with six cars. Mayor Howell Yes, that was cancelled by the City Attorney. Oliver C . Ball During the last meeting, they instructed me to write and cancel. Let me add this, I get upset, perhaps I have to work a little harder, but here initially I was concerned with two or three things. One, is the special called meeting tonight. It meets all charter require- ments so we are here as a body. Also, this point that sites the laws of the state and this town, and I will read it. This is part of Section I - Call for Bids . " The City reserves the right to waive informalities in any bid; to reject any or all bids in whole or in part, and to accept the bid that, in its judgement, will be to the best interest of the City of Atlantic Beach. Minutes, Verbatim, March 13 , 1975, Page 14 Oliver C . Ball The judgement of this body carries an awful lot weight in a court of law or anywhere else . So I am passing the buck back to you, when the sealed bids are opened, then to accept those bids as they are without the hassle about the promise from the floor or anyone else. If the bidding process is going to operate, we are going to have to advertize for bid, receive them, they are sealed and we open them. For that process to operate, we 've got to operate on that basis. If not and we do know of a neighboring town about 1/2 mile away from here that does not receive bids on insurance matters, etc. The theory is to get the best and lowest price on a sealed bid. Open that damn thing and that ' s it. We need to apply the philosphy (cannot understand) what is the best interest of the City of Atlantic Beach. Apply that. Mr. Vogel In that connection, you and I and the Mayor met as a committee met on a Saturday morning with one representative from an insurance company on the hospitalation and life insurance and we at another meeting of the full commission and had everybodyrepresented and its true we didnot resolve anything but everybody was equally represented and that was my sole purpose in calling this meeting tonight. I don' t have any vindictive attitude about it at all. I thought and still think that I was doing my job. If you don' t think so, I am sorry but I really tried. Commissioner Minton I think you had a just cause. I think the thing we have to do is determine who we are going to give this bid to because as I under- stand it the Chief needs the cars . We have to get them for him. At this point in time, since I was not at the meeting I am in a real lost. I don' t know. I feel that we should go the way our lawyer says . It ' s hard to under- stand except from the minutes and as the minutes stand and from the verbatim facts I am incline to believe that Platt Pontiac is the lowest bidder . Minutes, Verbatim, March 13, 1975, Page 15 Commissioner Rosborough Well, Mr. Vogel called me Tuesday morning after we had awarded this and said it doesn ' t look right. I called Bill Fogg and Bob Cook and questioned them and said "do you think we did the right thing"? Both of them agreed. I called Mr. Vogel back and said "Bob, I 've talked to these other guys, they feel we did the right thing in the best interest to the city and that as far as we are concerned it stands. I don' t think there is anything illegal about it whatsoever because it was written, typed right down on the front of the page and it was not that he was rebating commission or doing anything else. This is the basis we awarded the contract to Lee Chevrolet to expediate getting the cars if nothing else . And that was Monday and he would have had the cars by now. Commissioner Fogg Which is why I was very interested in what the City Attorney had to say about it. I have trouble believing we did anything wrong . If we did it wrong - I think we ought to get it right . If we did not do it wrong I don ' t see that it need be brought up again. Mr. Vogel I hope you realize, Mr. Fogg , that I wasn' t trying to throw a monkey wrench in your action. I am basing this on, and Mr. Rosborough ad- mitted this tonight, that he did not think that Lee made but one bid and he is justified in saying that because (not able to understand) I stand on the premise that that man purposely mislead you because he knew full well he had two other bids in there that had not been read by Mr. Rosborough. They were not even taken into consideration and if that is not misleading then (interupted by Rosborough) Commissioner Rosborough I don ' t think that is the point we are concerned with. The point we are concerned with is that we reduced his bid by $261 .00 . Regardless of whether he had four or five bids. I don ' t think that is the point. Minutes, Verbatim, March 13, 1975, Page 16 Mr. Vogel I make the point like this Mr. Rosborough, that inasmuch as those bids were not written into the records then they cannot become a part of the record now. They were not con- sidered that night, only a part of one bid that you thought was part of this one when you flipped the page the page over you evi- dently thought that it did not take on the original and you were looking at a third copy or something. In other words, I am not accusing anyone on this commission that they did not act in good conscience. Don 't misunderstand me. That was my main purpose in calling this meeting . I thought that when you saw two other bids that had not been considered and now that you want to consider them tonight as a part of the record, which you can do because we are in legal session, then that' s a horse of another color. Commissioner Rosborough It ' s not part of the record. I think you are losing site of the fact that I asked the gentlemen "how much is this AM-FM radio cost'? He said "261.00" . I said "where to you get the figure"? Are you grabing it out of the air? " He said "no" . Its written down there on those other bids . I guess that ' s what he said. So, we are just using that figure that he had already printed and written down. Mr. Vogel The actual cost of an AM-FM radio is probably, wholesale, $87 .00 . But, putting back a regular AM radio is $55 .00. So, he is giving us radios to get the bid. In fact, he is giving us credit for a full AM-FM taking them out and then he is putting back for free three regular AM radios . Commissioner Rosborough He said the additional cost for the AM-FM radio is $87 .00. It was $261 .00 for the three vehicles. Mr. Martin I have checked all my prices which are accessories throughout General Motors and there is no way Minutes, Verbatim, March 13, 1975, Page 17 Mr. Martin for subtracting AM-FM radios, adding AM-FM radios where $261 .00 comes in. It ' s about $47 .00 dollars difference between an AM radio than an AM-FM radio. Mr. Vogel That is the point I was trying to make. Mr. Martin I bid the car according to specifications . There are several things I could take off and would like to do it if that can be done to the bid, which I was under the impression that I couldn' t. I bring a sealed bid down here because the cars that I have are sitting there according to specifications, plus some other things. I would be more than happy to take them off and lower the bid accordingly. Commissioner Fogg Is the cars you bid 2 BB? Mr. Martin Yes, they meet all the specifications . Commissioner Fogg They are not 9 BB, 4 BB or 22 BB? Mr. Martin When I came down to inspect the cars that are being traded in, I asked some specific questions about could we use a four door hardtop. Were we bidding on an AM-FM radio, even though the specifications say "factory installed radio" . I was told "no" an AM radio. I would be more than happy to lower my bid $90.00 to take the wheel covers off. Commissioner Rosborough I am sure that a Caprice or Impala has deluxe wheel covers on them. I am sure there are a lot of other fancy things on, just like your Grand Prix or Bonneville, etc. Mr. Martin I did not know which car I was bidding against Chevrolet but I bid Catalina 4 door sedan, which already had wheel covers and tinted glass . Mayor Howell Well, I think we have got to do something . I am just going to say something for whatever its worth. I don' t care if you buy Honda Civics. We have got to do something. The thing is this, I think that if this city is going to put out bids for something and someone comes in and meets the specifications and is the low Minutes, Verbatim, March 13, 1975, Page 18 Mayor Howell bidder, it seems to me if nothing else but the integrity of the city should be to give the low bidder who meets the specifications the bid. Now, I don't care whether he pulls the hub caps off or the wheels off or the engine out or whatever it happens to be, because I am sure that every salesmen that comes up here with a bid can jack his prices around once he knows what the other bidder is and come up with something lower. Just like Mr. Ball said, and as a matter of fact, just as a matter of information one of our local citizens who was in my office last Friday, who lives here, who is in the business of bidding carpet and he made a bid recently to a city (and the press isn 't here) I still won't mention it but it lies about two miles to the south of us, he happened to be six hundred dollars under the low bid. His carpeting met all the specs, as a matter of fact, exceeded some of the specifications, but he did not get the bid simply because they said "we never heard of the manufacturer, so you are not going to get the bid" . This man said to me "I will never bid again for this city" . Now, somewhere you have got to draw the line. Let ' s talk very technically, the bid said 2 BB carburetor . Chevrolet is not going to provide you with 2 BB carburetor and this is in the mouth of Mr. Ohler. "What is the model of the car? Commissioner Rosborough - It does not say. It says that it meets specifications . The bill calls for 400 cubic inch 2 BB carburetor, V-8 engine, automatic transmission. These are the specifications" . Mr. Ohler -- We have included a 4 BB carburetor" . Commissioner Cook --"you just read off 2 BB and Mr. Ohler said 4 BB" . Commissioner Rosborough -- "Our specifications call for 2 BB carburetor" . Listen to the next thing that comes up. Mr Ohler --"You will notice that it just says radio. I have included AM-FM as so stipulated in the bid. " Minutes, Verbatim, March 13, 1975, Page 19 Mayor Howell Now, we are off the carburetors completely. But, then we go back over -- Chief Stucki -- "They don' t meet the specs as written" . Mr. Ohler -- "What do you mean"? Chief Stucki -- "The specs call for 400 with 2 BB carburetor and a vinyl interior" . Mr. Ohler -- "That' s what these have. " Chief Stucki -- "Are you going to put seat covers on them or are they vinyl interior? " Mr. Ohler -- "Two of them have vinyl already and one I have to re-up- holster and that is included. " Again, we are off the carburetor. Now, the only question I have to ask, is this, the award bid stipulated nothing other than Lee Chevrolet would get the bid. There was no stipulation that the 2 BB would be waived and could be replaced with a 4 BB . There was no stipulation that the factory installed radio was waived, because its no longer going to be a factory installed, according to Mr. Ohler word. Now, my question is this, what is Chief Stucki suppose to do when these cars roll down and Lee Chevrolet says "here are your cars" and he looks at them and says "well, they 've got 4 BB and the specs say 2 BB" . Where do we go? What are we going to do? I don ' t like it anymore than anybody else. These things are very distasteful. The question of the lowest and best bid, in my opinion, with Mr. Ohler' s $261.00 out of it which puts him $60.00 then under the low bid and you have already got one automobile that the seats are going to be pulled out of and the upholstery pulled off and they are going to be re-upholstered. The question is, is he not only is he the lowest bid, but is he the best bid? We sat here a couple of years ago, when we took bids for police cars, and I think it was Thor Cheverolet at that time, Thor Chevrolet was $50.00 higher in the bids and this City Commission, and I think they were right, awarded it to Thor Chevrolet simply be- cause of the proximity of the servicing garage happened to be three miles away instead of 15 miles away. Yes, I think that was the Minutes, Verbatim, March 13, 1975, Page 20 Mayor Howell lowest and best bid. Even though he was not the lowest bid, I am not sure in my mind that even with the reduction of the radios, and I don't give a damn about the radios, whether they 've got them or don' t have them, it is immaterial to me, but somewhere we have got to draw the line. Commissioner Fogg I think best thing you have said as far as the point is concerned is that as far as being off base, if we were, I think the main thing is that we received the bids and let somebody talk from the floor. Mayor Howell I think that' s exactly what happened and I don' t blame one man on this commission. I think you had a fast taller. Commissioner Fogg I certainly don't blame the acting mayor. I know all of us acted in the best interest of the city or what we thought was the best interest. Mayor Howell I don' t think there is any question about that. No one questions that one bit. Commissioner Fogg I think that as a matter of principles, if we are going to have sealed bids that ought to be the end of it. (unable to understand) I was under the impression that a 4 BB carburetor was better than a 2 BB carburetor, like an AM-FM radio is better than an AM radio. Not better, but exceeds the specifications. If we are in a position to do it, I would like to move that we rescind the action of the City Commission, March 10th and award the bid to the lowest and best bidder, which in my opinion is Platt Pontiac. Commissioner Minton I second the motion. Mayor Howell The motion has been made and seconded, it is now open for discussion. Minutes, Verbatim, March 13, 1975, Page 21 Commissioner Fogg Rob, I think you and I think I and I think Bob Cook all bid what we thought was best. I 'm still not convinced that it was not. I think, particularly with a sealed bid con- cept, I think under that line we make a mistat.e in letting the man speak insofar as awarding the bid. Mayor Howell Any further discussion? Are you ready for the question? All in favor of the motion? The vote was three 'Ayes" , one "Nay" (Voting aye - Minton, Fogg, Howell) (Voting nay - Rosborough Mayor Howell The ayes have it, so ordered. Is there any further business to come before the City Commission? If not, the meeting is adjourned.