04-12-82 v AGENDA
CITY OF ATLANTIC BEACH, FLORIDA
April 12, 1982
Call to Order
Invocation and Pledge to Flag
1. Approval of the Minutes of March 22, 1982
2. Recognition of Visitors
3. Correspondence
A. From Department of Environmental Regulation re Duval Beaches 201
B. From Neptune Beach Mayor Ish Brant re Maintenance of Atlantic
Boulevard Median Strips
4. Advisory Planning Board
A. Meeting of March 23, 1982, re Proposed Zoning Ordinance, and Advertise-
ment for Public Hearing
5. City Manager's Report
A. Item #1 - Request by Mr. John Wade to Construct a Duplex in the
Donner Subdivision
B. Item #2 - Request by Jiffy Food Stores to Construct New Store at
Royal Palms Drive and Atlantic Boulevard
C. Item #3 - Purchase of Water Meters
D. Item #4 - Authorization to Submit "Request for Inclusion on Construction
Grants Priority List"
E. Item #5 - Acceptance of Improvements for Selva Marina Gardens
F. Item #6 - Emergency Purchase of a Filtration Blower for the
Wastewater Treatment Plant
G. Item #7 - Request by Mr. Tommy Lyles to Construct a Two-Car Garage
in a Business B District
H. Item #8 - Award of Contract for a Steam Cleaner
I. Item #9 - Minimum Requirements for Subdivisions
J. Item #10 - Reorganization of Transportation Division
6. New Business
7. Unfinished Business
A. Planned Unit Development Application - Ernest "Rocky" Russell -
Saltair Subdivision Lot 691 - Public Hearing
8. Report of Committees
9. Action on Resolutions
10. Action on Ordinances
A. Ordinance No. 75-82-3 - An Ordinance Regulating Vehicles Stopping,
Standing and Parking - Third and Final Reading -
Public Hearing Continued
B. Ordinance No. - An Ordinance Amending the City Charter re
Appointment of City Treasurer/Comptroller
(To Be Presented by the City Attorney)
11. Miscellaneous Business
AB 1285
12. ADJOURN
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE ATLANTIC BEACH CITY
COMMISSION HELD AT THE CITY HALL ON APRIL 12, 1982 AT 8:00 P.M. V V
0 0
PRESENT:Robert B. Persons, Jr. , Mayor-Commissioner T T
William I. Gulliford, Jr. E E
Alan Jensen D D
Preben Johansen
Catherine G. Van Ness, Commissioners
S
AND: A. William Moss, City Manager 0 E
Oliver C. Ball, City Attorney T C
Adelaide R. Tucker, City Clerk I 0 Y
NAME OF ONEN
COMMRS . N D S 0
The meeting was called to order by Mayor Persons. The invocation,
offered by Commissioner Van Ness, was followed by the pledge to the flag.
Approval of the Minutes of March 22, 1982
Gulliford x x
Motion:The minutes of the regular Commission meeting of March 22, 1982 Jensen x
be approved as submitted. Johansen x
Van Ness x x
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Persons x
Correspondence
A. From Department of Environmental Regulation re Duval Beaches 201
Mr. Moss stated that the above mentioned letter was in response to in-
quiries he had made, and basically the letter implied that the City cann't
go ahead with the package plant until we resolve the problem with the
outfall. Mr. Moss added that he learned while in Tallahassee that the
201 plannings should be proceeding within the next thirty days.
B. From Neptune Beach Mayor Ish Brant re Maintenance of Atlantic Boule-
vard Median Strips
The City Manager noted that the letter from Mayor Brant was a confirmation
re sharing the maintenance of the ten median strips on Atlantic Boulevard.
Atlantic Beach will maintain the five eastern sections and Neptune Beach
the five western most sections.
Advisory Planning Board
Mayor Persons acknowledged receipt of the Advisory Planning Board's
minutes of the meeting of March 23, 1982 and advised that their Public
Hearing has been advertised to be held on April 20, 1982 at 7:00 p.m. .
Mr. Moss added that the Advisory Planning Board's Public Hearing before
their final report to the Commission is required by State Statues. The
Public Hearing will be held on a new proposed final report concerning
zoning boundries, districts, and regulations to be presented to the
Commission as a proposed Zoning Ordinance.
AB 1286
PAGE TWO - - -
MINUTES V V
Names of
APRIL 12, 1982
Commrs. M S y N
City Manager's Report
A. Item 411-Request by Mr. John Wade to construct a duplex in the
Donner Subdivision
Mr. Moss stated that Mr. John Wade has requested approval to construct
a duplex on Lot 5, Block 9, of the Donner Subdivision, which is
presently zoned Business B. The proposed new zoning calls for Residential
General and a duplex would be an appropriate use.
Gulliford x x
Motion: Approve Mr. Wade's request to construct a duplex on Lot 5, Jensen x
Block 9, Donner's Subdivision, subject to review by the Johansen x x
City Manager of the plans. Van Ness x
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Persons x
B. Item#2 -Request by Jiffy Food Stores to Construct New Store at
Royal Palms Drive and Atlantic Boulevard
The City Manager requested authorization to issue a building permit
to Jiffy Food Stores, Inc. to construct a new building at the south-
east corner of Royal Palms Drive and Atlantic Boulevard adjacent to
the existing filling station at that location. The firm has plans
to utilize the existing building in the future,by remodeling, perhaps
as a fresh produce mart. Mayor Persons advised the representatives
from Huntley Jiffy Stores that the city has an Ordinance that says
you cannot locate an alcoholic beverage license within 1500 feet of
another location, and expressed the opinion that his license could
not be transferred from Jiffy Food's present location across the street.
Mr. Smoak, representing Huntley Jiffy Stores, stated that they had
been advised of the Ordinance earlier in the day, and if they had to
choose between gas and beer, they would have to choose gas. Mr. Smoak
asked if there was a vehicle for exception. Mr. Ball, the City Attorn y
said no, that he had turned down another individual several months
ago that wanted to move across a parking lot. Commissioner Gulliford
opined that the Commission should pursue the possibility of amending
the Ordinance. Discussion followed. Commissioner Van Ness moved for
the following motion:
Motion: Jiffy Food Stores be granted a building permit subject to ulliford x
the approval of the City Manager and that the transfer of ensen x
the beer and wine license will be decided by the City Com- ohansen x x
mission at a later date. an Ness x x
ersons x
During discussion before the question was called, Commissioner Jense
asked the City Attorney for a legal opinion as to the effect of the
Ordinance. The City Attorney will deliver his opinion later.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
C.Item #3- Purchase of Water Meters
The City Manager requested authorization to continue purchasing wate
meters through contracts issued by the City of Jacksonville provided
that funds have been budgeted.
AB 1287
PAGE THREE V V
MINUTES Names of
APRIL 12, 1982 Commr s. M S Y N
_ - ---- --- -- __ - -. - -- -- - . -qb. _ , A.. �
C. Item #3 - Purchase of Water Meters - continued
Gulliford x x
Motion: Authorize the City Manager to continue the practice of Jensen x
purchasing water meters through contracts issued by the Johansen x x
City of Jacksonville Van Ness x
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Persons x
D. Item #4-Authorization to Submit "Request for Inclusion on Contruc-
tion Grants Priority List"
The City Manager requested authorization to take appropriate action
to submit a "Request for Inclusion on construction Grants Priority
List" to the Department of Environmental Regulation. The request should
be completed by a qualified Sanitary Engineer and, therefore, there
may be a cost for the application.
Motion: Authorize the City Manager to take appropriate action to Gulliford x
submit a "Request for Inclusion on Construction Grants Jensen x x
Priority List" to the Department of Environmental Johansen x
Regulation. Van Ness x x
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Persons x
E. Item #5- Acceptance of Improvements for Selva Marina Garden
Verbatim:
Mr. Moss: I have tried to summarize the events and date on the
development referred to as Selva Marina Garden, including
information and recommendations by the City Engineer, Mr.
Parks, and also included the response to those recommenda-
tions submitted on behalf of the developer, Mr. Bull
through his attorney, Mr. Skeels, and to attempt to try
and resolve the difficulties we have here. I am suggesting
at this point that we really accept the development or
accept the improvements, including streets, water lines,
sewer lines, storm sewers, subject to the compliance with
the plans and specifications by submittal of the fifth
field test and by assuming that he is going to reconstruct
the water blow-offs that have been damaged since the
original construction.
Commissioner
Johansen: You are saying, subject to the blow-offs being repaired.
Mr. Moss: That is correct.
Commissioner
Johansen: There was mention of a fifth boring. Is that a necessary
boring?
Mr. Moss: It was required in the plans and specifications as one
of the five borings, and is not really a big thing and
should have been done. I don't think the developer will
Commissionerobject to that.
Johansen: Well, I will move that
Mayor
Persons: Before you do that, I want to ask the City Attorney
something. Mr. Ball, I noticed in the City Manager's
AB 1288
PAGE FOUR V V
MINUTES Names of
APRIL 12, 1982 Cornmrs . M S Y N
E.Item #5-Selva Marina Garden-continued
Mayor
Persons: little package here on this project, that he had a question
as to what was the city's liabilities and responsibilities
going to be if we accepted a new system of water lines
that were not approved by proper regulatory agency which
is the Department of Public Health of Duval County. What
kind of position is that going to put us in?
Mr.Ball: Yes, I've considered that, and have reduced it to my own
notes and discussed it. Last meeting, I briefly went into
it. . . .We would be opening the door to where it would be
impossible for this Commission and staff to police all
the various bureaucratic rules and regulations as they
change. A good illustration is the lengthy letter from
Tallahassee this evening. It would be impossible. . .and
my conclusion is that this is an internal problem with
the developer and the contractors, and with the Dept. of
Health & Rehabilitation Services and as long as this
city determines that it is adequate in this city's opinion,
adequate, it's sanitary, it's safe, it will work that this
city's approval is all we should concern ourselves with,
and not Tallahassee or any enviromental people. That is
an internal problem they have - - not us.
Mayor
Persons: Are we going to be exposing ourselves to any liabilities
if someone gets sick from that water system or if it explodes?
Mr. Ball: None, whatsoever. It is here on acceptance. If it is
sanitary and safe at this time with the various reports
we have at this time, I can see no liability.
Mr. Moss: Mr. Ball, can you respond to the question on the replatting,
because I really don't have the information I need, and I
guess I'm at the point I'm not even sure why we have the
plat in the first place. If somebody plats, and then they
can turn around and sell by metes and bounds - why do we
go through the effort in the first place?
Mr. Ball: Yes, I was thinking that resolved itself. There is no way
we can prohibit anyone from selling a lot and a partial
of another lot or selling land by metes and bounds. It is
whether or not it meets your determination. . .
Mayor
Persons: I think the purpose of the plat is to show where the public
rights-of-way and roads and easements will be. Is that correct?
Mr. Ball: Right, and if I understand it right, those things have
not changed here. In fact, they couldn't be, because they
were dedicated on the recording of the plat.
Commissioner
Van Ness: The water and sewer connections certainly changed.
Mr. Ball: They have? They are drawn in. . . .I assume there will be
an as-built plan coming in. I can't contemplate the plats
with its straight lines being the actual measurements of _-
AB 1289
PAGE FIVE
MINUTES V V
APRIL 12, 1982 Names of
Commrs. M S Y N
.. ,
E.Item #5-Selva Marina Garden- continued
Mr. Ball: sewer and water lines going in.
Commissioner
Van Ness: Well, the plat has been changed.
Mr. Moss: The plat is the same.
Commissioner
Van Ness: The plat, as they are building it, is not the same. The
sewer connections are no longer in line. The houses are
not being built on the lot line in accordance with the
PUD as it was originally planned. They were to be cluster
homes, they were not to be single family patio homes on
a sixty foot lot, and that is what is up there. It is
disgraceful looking. . .if one of those lots in the center
catches on fire,"Katie,bar the door" to get safety equip-
ment to them to get it out. Now, I do not agree with the
way it has been built, and I do not agree with the way
the sewer system is going to have to be approved. I don't
know what our recourse is there, but I do not go along
with it.
Mayor
Persons: The recourse would be, as Mr.Moss states, the developer
be required to modify the sewer service connections in ac-
cordance with an acceptable plan. Then he would probably
have to cut new roads to allow new connections to the
main. I think that you are talking about a rather large
cost to the developer
Commissioner
Van Ness: He is the one that did it wrong, and I can't help but
believe that he is the one that should remedy it. Now,
I don't know what their remedy actually is. . .it is a mess
up there right now.
Mr. Moss: The problem is siamese connections, and each connection
went to a different lot. Where the lots were sold separately,
it ended up to be two siamese connections with the one
lot, and nothing with the next lot. . .then two more, and
then nothing again. So, in order to proceed with the
development, I think you can start back with this main,
go into the road, or just extend this line across to this
property. I think we have some obligation to assure that
a plumber taps into the right line on this property over
here. True, it will cost the contractor a little bit more
money.
Mayor
Persons: If we approve this plan tonight, I disagree that we will
have any obligation thereafter to make sure the plumber
tapped into the right line. I think that would be the
property owner's problem.
Mr. Moss: Well, if I come to the City and lay out $700 to you for
the privilege of tapping into your line,I think I shoulc
reasonably expect that I ought to be able to go in front ,-
of my property line and find your line somewhere. AB 1290
• PAGE SIX V V
MINUTES Names of
APRIL 12, 1982 Commr s. M S Y N
--- --- -- -- - --- - - - - - - - - - e ,..
E. Item 115-Selva Marina Garden - continued
Mayor
Persons: I think you can tell him, fine, you can tap it and have Mr.
Bull tell him where the line is. That is what we are going
to have to do. . .we don't know where it is.
The Chair recognized
Mr. Bennett: You know, I am in this business, and I went through this
stuff. I'm sure that Mr. Bull had an engineer that gives yot
a drawing or plan of everything.e€ iem lines are going. .even
to the telephone lines. , and I don't think noone would have
no objections that knows because he is not going to spend
millions of dollars down there and not know where a line goes
He's got to have an engineer's drawing before he builds that
line.
Mayor
Persons: We understand that, Mr. Bennett. We, right now, don't under-
stand exactly where they are. He has agreed that he will
help us find the lines.
Mr.Bennett:Well, that is your fault. That ain't his fault. That's the
City's fault, 'cause you should have done that before you
'ayor
ersons: You are wrong there, because he did the construction before
he came and got the approval of all this, so it is not the
city's fault.
Mr. Bennett: Well, I'll back up then. Now, I can't get by Neptune Beach
like that, O.K. ? You have to have an engineer's drawing where
your line is going.
The Chair
Recognized My name is Bob Skeels, I represent Mr. George Bull.
Bob Skeels: I would like to say at this point and the point you are talking
about. After the land was originally platted, Mr. Bull entered
into an agreement with two builders - they are building on
property here. They wanted to expand the size of the lots.
R.L. Croasdell & Co.dealt a revised layout,as we talked about,
that expanded the size of the lots, or reduced 28 lots that
we are talking about down to 23 lots. That's created the over-
lap, as far as lots are concerned, in that particular area.
And, I indicated to you, while we have sold those lots off
and they are building on those lots, we will bring back to
the city an as-built plan that will reflect precisely where
the locations of the sewer connections will be on those lots.
They will be off the street on each individual lot as they
go along, and they have been moved down the road. And they
have been done by the builders that have purchased those lots
and are building on those lots, but they will be prepared and
furnished to the City, without any question at all.
.payor
Persons: I was not questioning that. I was just saying that we would not
be responsible for locating for the people that wanted to tie in.
AB 1291
PAGE SEVEN V V
MINUTES Names of
APRIL 12, 1982 Commrs. M S Y N
E. tem - e va 'arina ar.en - continue.
Mr. Skeels: Well, you will have the drawings that will show precisely
where they can tap in. There won't be any question about that
at all - they are being developed now and they will be furnished
to the City as soon as they are finished and can be furnished.
Mayor
Persons: Are the developers making provisions for the lot owner who
buys the non-piped lot to have access to the piped lot to
make his connections on?
Mr. Skeels: The line is being drawn down - there is about 10 feet. You
start a one lot and there is about 10' apparently the way we
are doing it that is being added to that lot with the longer
road thereabouts. So the line that was originally drawn will
be--you know we furnished about 10' down the line to get under
the particular property owners property that is purchasing
the property and will tap into that line, and those are the
as-built drawings that will be provided to the city. They
are being worked on right now and will be provided to the
city as soon as they are finished.
Mayor
rsons: O.K. Thank you.
•
„-mmissioner
Jensen: I have a real problem with ---- unless it comes under PUD,
our Ordinance require that lots have a minimum 75' frontage
(newly platted lots) . Is that correct?
Commissioner
Van Ness Yes.
Commissioner
Jensen: Well, we approved this PUD with, I believe, 50' lots, but
with the understanding that zero lot line homes were going to
be built - two of them back to back in the middle of a 100'
lot, basically. Now has he sold a lot and Z?
Mr. Moss: Yes.
Commissioner
Jensen: Not even that much. He has gone to like 60' .
Mr. Moss: Yes, sold a lot and 10' .
Commissioner
Jensen: So, he has completely changed everything we originally approved.
Commissioner
Van Ness: Absolutely.
Commissioner
Jensen: And he did this without our permission?
Moss &
Ness: Apparently.
I,ommissioner
Jensen: Mr. Skeels, do you know how soon after we approved the plot
that he entered into this agreement with Eberling and Greeniille
and Meuse?
AB 1292
PAGE EIGHT V V
MINUTES Names of
APRIL 12, 1982 Commrs. M S Y N
E. Item #5-Selva Marina Garden- continued
Mr. Skeels:I'm not sure precisely the time, but they came forward and
and wanted to do that. He was selling platted land as far
as he was concerned. They had their own concerns and what
they wanted to do with it,which is expressed in the contract.
He was selling platted land, and he was not concerned as far
as the platted land is concerned as to what they wanted to
do with it so long as they met the city's requirements. That
was their problem - not his. Now, I understand that they do
need to come forward and they have not yet come forward yet
with the as-built plans, etc. and they do need to do that
and we will work with the City in any way we can to make
sure they do that.
Commissioner
Jensen: I'm not so much concerned with the water and sewer because
that can be adjusted to fit however the lots are. My concern
is that apparently there has been an amendment to what we
approved up there under the PUD application and the approval
we granted, but nothing has been brought before us for approval
of an amendment.
Mr. Skeels:I can't address that. I don't know if there has been any.
ommissioner
..ulliford: I would move that we instruct the City Manager to tell us
at the next meeting exactly how the existing Subdivision
construction runs contrary to what was originally approved
by the City Commission whenever it took place- - any deviatipns
whatsoever. It seems like, every other meeting, we all get
involved in a situation where we are expected to be licensed
contractors, plumbers, electricians, land surveyors, and
engineers. It doesn't seem to me that this city is supposed
to function like that. What do we have professional people
for?? We are simply an overseer that approves and my feeling,
like Commissioner Jensen said, that if something is approved,
it should be adhered to unless someone comes back, and says
look, we want to change this accordingly, and amend it. This
is just not the way the game should be played. I don't know
what Mr. Parks feelings are on the whole thing and what has
taken place, but it sounds like to me it is a Chinese Fire
Drill.
Mr.Moss: I can do it now, but I am going to slant it with some of my
personal opinions. I think the City Commission had a fair
understanding what they had on their plat, but I think there
is some question as to what actually was going to be built.
If you go back and look at official record and what was provided
in writing, you are not going to find very much at all. Thera
are no graphics or drawings as to what in fact was going to
be constructed, so some felt the Commission approved patio
homes adjoining roof lines throughout the development, and
other people felt it was single unit patio homes on zero lot
lineswith space in between. And short of going through and
spending several days on the minutes, and even when that is
AB 1293
PAGE NINE V V
APRIL 12, 1982
MINUTES Names of
Commr s. M S Y N
E. Item #5-Selva Marina Garden - continued
Mr. Moss: done, I don't think you are going to have an answer. Please
correct me if I'm wrong, but a group of people stood up and
showed you something and nothing was recorded and nothing
accompanied the official minutes, so we each had conceptions,
(I am saying we, as if I was here - I wasn't, but we have
conceptions of what was being approved. In fact, a lot of
statements were made and it is difficult to say what was going
to happen. The lot size, yes, the plat was approved and signed
before the development took place - this is something I suggast
we not do. I wouldn't recommend that we sign a plat until
after the development is completed in the future. But, none-
the less, the plat was approved, and even if I were a developer
I would not want that, because I couldn't possibly know what
easements would be required from JEA or from the water lines
or any thing else. Had that not happened, that might solved
some concerns. The question came up shortly after I arrived
here as to whether or not the development could proceed based
on the concept which is basically what I felt the City Com-
mission had approved but the lots, had in fact, increased in
size, and as I understood the architect at that time was thatthere
was some concern that the 50' lots were too small and hints
that the increase to 60' lots does not in fact, while techni-
cally is a change, does not change the development as approvad,
in fact if anything, it enhanced the development. Well, I
discussed this with people at that time and the Chairman of
the Advisory Planning Board, and basically got the same -basically
was given that opinion. At this time, I really honestly can' t
tell you - can't find what the City Commission approved for
that development. I can show you the plat they signed, but
I can't conceptually tell you what was to be developed there.
Commissioner
Van Ness: After having read back through the minutes and having been
present at the time when it was passed, it was the understanding
of the City Commission,and I think so states pretty clearly
in the minutes, and I have listened to a lot of the tapes
again. I have not seen them written down - I would very much
like to see that - word for word. It was agreed upon that this
development would be done with a common lot line, houses built
cluster form, back to back lots so that it would look like
one large house on one large lot, and that was the under-
standing the City Commission was left with. Meuse & Greenville
were here and Eberling and they all presented drawings. Those
were the drawings that we saw. They were not entered into
the minutes, no. , they should have been. They were not. That
was the understanding that the City Commission had, and I tl-ink
the minutes reflect that, and I also think that their covenants
and restrictions reflect that. In their covenants and restrictions,
it says that when a single family home will be built undetac'hed,
more or less, it will be built on a 100' lot, and I think the
minutes also reflect that.
AB 1294
PAGE TEN ' V V
MINUTES Names of
April 12, 1982 Commrs. M S Y N
E. Item #5-Selva Marina Garden - continued
Mr. Moss: But the covenants and restrictions also talk about building
on a one foot zero lot line with a ten foot difference from
one lot to another.
Commissioner
Van Ness: That's right, but that was ten feet on either side.
Mr. Moss: Well, I guess at this point--if you compare the process that
you utilized for the Treco development and the comparison
to the one you utilized for this development you will see
where there are grounds for misunderstanding. Now, I really
don't know what to do at this point. You will have another
chance at it with phase II coming in and if you don't like
the development at that time, then that can be so expressed.
I can research it all you want for two weeks and I don't
think I will be able to tell you anything much different
and I am not really disagreeing with what you approved, but
I guess you can stand up and anybody can tell us anything,
but if we don't have it reduced to writing where we all under-
stand what we are approving, then I don't know what recourse
we have.
Commissioner
'an Ness: I couldn't agree with you more, that we need to have applicakions,
we need to have the whole thing laid down in black and white
so there is no grounds for discrepancy. This is where we
are standing with this one, and I totally and wholeheartedly
disagree with the way it is.
Commissioner
Gulliford: So,in essence, what you are saying is that even if the feel-
ing is this violates the understanding and the good faith
and the approval of the City Commission whenever it was reviewed
and approved, we really don't have anything to support our
position - nothing tangible - nothing in writing or drawings,
or anything else.
Mayor
Persons: On the other hand, neither does the contractor.
Commissioner
Van Ness: And I will say, also, to Mr. Skeels, that Mr. Bull was the
developer that worked with the City Commission. It is his
PUD and what is built up there is his responsibility, and
not those contractors. He is the one who filed for the PUD
and he is the one with whom the sole responsibility lies.
Mr. Skeels: I think the point on the floor right now is the acceptance
of the improvements. We have improvements from the myriad
of correspondence that you have from your City Engineer, and
from myself which I have drawn from our own Engineer, etc.
that we have perhaps three, what we call work problems, that
are involved. Those consist of two blow-offs, work loss in
the line and consist of a fifth core sample. It was required
in our contract with our contractor in which he did not per-
form. Now, the four existing core samples reflect that the
roadway and sub-structure was constructed in accordance witr
AB 1295
PAGE ELEVEN V V
MINUTES Names of
APRIL 12, 1982 Commr s. M S Y N
E. Item #5 - Selva Marina Garden - continued
all approved standards. That is no problem with that at all,
and the fifth core sample will be taken if you deem it neces-
sary. There is no problem with that at all. The blow-offs
will be repaired. Those are the two pipes that come from
the sub-structure at the end of the water line and brought
to the surface. They were in place and built and are wrong
now. They will be replaced - there is no problem with that
at all. But, as far as the existing improvements are concerned
the lights are replaced now, JEA has installed them now -
there is no question about that. There are only three items,
and for the life of me, are the only ones that exist as far
as the improvements are concerned, and are traditionally
items that warrant repair, and Mr. Bull will repair them.
There isn't any question about those. He has repaired those
items in his practice for the past thirty years, and his
father before him, for many years too, and he will be out
there to make sure those items are in place to whatever exte_-it
you deem appropriate. And that is the point that is before
the floor right now, as far as the acceptance of the improve-
ments. And these items that are repair items and certainly,
you know--the total cost of those repairs might be $300. and
might be less. We are talking about improvements that are
considerably more expansive than that, and I think that is
the point that is before the floor - is the acceptance of
those things,
Mayor Persons: Excuse me, but I don't think the only thing that has to
be ruled on is the blow-outs and the fifth core. I think
the question that the Commission has is whether the things
you are asking us to approve are the things that we authorized
to be done out there in the first place. We understand that
they have been done, we don't have any question with that---
they have been done. Our question is are they the things that
we originally authorized, and I don't know, as I was not
sitting here.
Mr. Skeels:The only thing that I can say is that I am responding to
the reports that were submitted to Mr. Moss and from Mr. Moss
submitted to me to respond to. They were engineering reports.
We know that the City Engineer has accepted the plans and
specifications of the project, the state has accepted the
plans and specifications as being in compliance with the
state and local standards , Sanitary Engineering Branch,
Duval County Public Health Dept. have done their tests and
they are acceptable.
Mayor
Persons: They are the ones that have not given the formal approval.
r. Skeels: They don't give formal approval of as-built plans.
Mayor Persons: That is the problem we have. It shouldn't have been an
as-built plan
Ag 1296
PAGE TWELVE V V
MINUTES Names of
APRIL 12, 1982 Comm's. M S Y N
E. Item 5 - Selva Marina Garden - continued
Mr. Skeels:The problem we have today, with 15% to 18% interest rates
that you can't afford to just go ahead when you are in the
middle of a contract and submit plans to the State for them
to sit on for the next 80-90-120 days or however long they
want to sit on those plans while the tickler is on you on
an interest basis, cause you are drawing money down from the
bank in order to build those improvements while the State
sits on them. And if you've been around long enough and
you've built long enough you figure you can build as-built
plans and submit them to the State because they will work
just like they have worked for the last fifteen years and
they are the same plans. That is exactly what has happened
here. At the end of that road, the State comes in and says
while we don't approve as-built plans per se,the plans and
specifications submitted to us meet all state and local
standards. I don't know what else you can add to that, They
reviewed the plans and specs, the project was built according
to those plans and specs, and met all state and local standards,
and while they don't approve as-built plans, for whatever
reasons they have, no one could construct in that market
with interest rates we have now. You just can't do it.
No agency has come forth and said these plans and specs are
inappropriate, that the as-built structures do not comport
with the plans and specifications.
Mayor
Persons: Well, we have an agency right here that is questioning whether
the as-built product comports to be in compliance with what
was approved, and the question I think is raised, is who
has the burden of proof. Do we have to prove they weren't
what approved, or does he have to approve they were.
Mr. Skeels:I would say to that - you have a report from your City
Engineer, who has exhaustively surveyed the entire system.
Mayor
Persons: Now, he says, if I don't misconstrue his report, that what
is out there, is not what was approved.
Mr. Skeels:He says in his report, there are two or maybe three blow-offs
at the end of the line to be replaced, and there is a fifth
core sample that was in the contract between George Bull and
A. J. Johns, contractor, that was not performed
Mayor
Persons: Mr. Skeels, I don't think it is necessary to go through the
whole report time out
Commissioner
Gulliford: Instead of paraphrasing, I would like to hear what Mr. Parks
has to say about the whole thing.
ayor
rersons: Mr. Parks, do you believe that the development out there is
in compliance with what was authorized by the Commission?
Mr. Parks: Mr. Mayor, I have been waiting for this opportunity to be
AB 1297
PAGE THIRTEEN V V
MINUTES Names of
APRIL 12, 1982 Commrs. M S y N
E. Item #5 - Selva Marina Garden - continued
Mr. Parks: taped tonight and I am grateful for you asking me. What is
out there, the water mains , which are the principal water
lines, have apparently been put in in accordance with the
plans and specifications which the City approved. There has
been great emphasis put on the fact that the regulatory agen^ies
do not approve as-built plans, do not formally approve as-
built plans, when they know them to be as-built. That is tr.le,
because the plans are supposed to be approved by the regulatary
agencies before construction starts. Now, where that ties in
with interest rates, I don't know. The water service lines
were installed by Mr. Bull's contractor, in accordance with
the recorded plat, which was the plan that Mr. Bull's engineer
worked from when the water service and sewer services were
planned. Now, in putting that plat, which was recorded, aside
and working with a revised layout, which is what happened,
the water and sewer service lines to the individual lots bear
no relationships now to where the lots are located, which means
that if those existing water and sewer service lines are modified
in their present positions to reach lot corners as the re-
vised lay-out would define. The City is going to have a whole
lot more pipe within the right-of-way limits to be maintained
than would normally be. The City is already in enough jeopardy
with water and sewer lines being damaged after they have beer
installed by the installation of underground and electric
distribution, by the installation of underground telephone
cables, and by the installation of cable TV. If the cable
TV people go up there with the trench laying operation as
the matters now stand and start digging in there, they are
apt to rip out about half of the anticipated modifications
that would be made to the lines as they presently exist. The
City is already experiencing a lot of trouble with damage to
these water and sewer lines by subsequent underground instal-
lations, and Mr. Mayor, that is about the best I can tell you.
The thing was planned for 28 lots, I think, and built accord-
ingly, and in the intervening time it has been reduced to
23 and that--there are a lot of gaps that need to be filled.
Mayor Mr. Bennett interrupted Mr. Parks.
Persons: Mr. Bennett,I will have to ask you to maintain some silence Dr I
Commissione ill have the bailiff remove you. Thank you, Sir.
Johansen: Aren't the telephone and cable TV companies responsible for
damage they do.
Mr. Moss: If we are aware of the damage, but quite often you can damage
a sewer line and not be aware of it for years. We will find
it in the sewer plant where you get a lot of sand, like we
are doing now, but unless there is a blockage, we will not
detect it. Conceiveably, you won't detect a small water leak
either. But, I'm not sure we are going to have any more lines
in the ground, Mr. Parks, by having 23 lots, are we, or are
you referring to the re-connections for the existing siamese
connections.
Mr. Parks: The modification of the existing lines is going to call for
AB 1298
PAGE FOURTEEN V V
MINUTES Names of
APRIL 12,1982 Commrs. MS Y N
E. em --elva farina GTaraen - continued
Mr. Parks: pipe in the ground.
Mr. Moss: That could be correct.
Commissioner
Johansen: Zero lot line homes, we would have had two houses on a 100'
lot. Correct?
Mr. Moss: That is correct.
Commissioner
Johansen: As opposed to two homes on 125' lot. Correct?
Moss That is correct.
Commissioner
Johansen: So the density is down by 20' per two units. And have they
given you in writing a promise that they will furnish you
with the relocations of the water and sewer lines as opposed
to the zero lot line concept?
Mr. Moss: Mr. Skeels letter indicates that they will assist us in
locating them.
Commissioner
Johansen: I don't mean"assist us in locating them".
"'r. Moss: Well, that is all we have in writing - that the developer
will assist us in locating them.
Commissioner
Johansen: I think you need,in writing, a set of plans so that you know
where they are and you don't have to call Mr. Skeels to come
up and show you where they are.
Mr. Moss: The density, may in fact, be even less than 23, because there
are one or two lots that is going to be less the original 50'
and under no circumstances are rE going to issue a permit on
any lot that is going to be less fhe originally approved 50' .
so there is one lot sitting there with only 47' and unless
they can modify it in someway, I don't know what they are
going to do with it.
Commissioner
Jensen: There is the real rub, as I see it. Any newly platted lot
has to have a 75' minimum frontage. Now, we have made exception
on the cul-de-sacs and things back there in the new areas
of Selva Marina because they have pie shape lots that go out
and you have a 40' or 50' frontage actually, but it is on a cul-
de-sac, so it is circular, and then the lot pies out. So it
is very clear what is required on a square lot, a rectangular
lot 75' across the front. When he came in with the 50' lots,
he was going to put two houses back to back in the middle,
so it is going to appear there is a large house on a 100'lot.
What he has done, though, is that he hasn't sold the 50' lots
like that. He has expanded the lots to 60' or whatever, in
some cases, or 55' or 56' , and sold them off and put one
house in the middle of the lot, or on the zero lot line, which
is totally opposite of what we approved. Apparently, as I under-
stand it, the improvements as to water and sewer and type of
thing, at least the physical layout, is in accordance with
AB 1299
PAGE FIFTEEN V V
MINUTES
APRIL 12, 1982 Names of
Commrs. M S Y N
E. Item #5 - Selva Marina Garden - continued
Commissioner
Jensen: what we originally approved, but it doesn't fit the lots
now, since the lot sizes have been changed.
Commissioner
Johansen: Did he do that, or did the contractors do that?
Commissioner
Jensen: He is the one who sold the property. Normally, if I own two
lots, I can sell a lot and half of the other lot if I want
to anybody I want to, but when we approved this under PUD,
we approved it specifically the way it was designed and laid
out, and he has gone and sold it differently from the way we
approved it, and built it differently.
Commissioner
Johansen: How did the contractors get permits to build it?
Mr. Moss: You get the permits from me. I issued the permits.
Commissioner
Johansen: If it is true whatever you are saying
End of tape - Minutes continued on next page
AB 1300
PAGE SIXTEEN V V
MINUTES Names of
APRIL 12, 1982 Commrs. MS y N
Commissioner
Jensen He sold it by metes and bounds description instead of
by plat
Commissioner When the contractor come up for a permit, wouldn't he
Johansen: show a different size lot
Mr.Moss:Commissioner, when I came to the city I had a plot plan
that looked like this, this is what I had. I'd like
to explain it, this is what I had and this is attached
to the plat. . . It was indicated to me that this was
acceptable because the lots were in fact larger than
that approved and the problem the City Commission had
at the time was that the lots were too small at 50 foot
they nonethe less approved them. And based on that in-
formation I looked at the same development and I had
nothing before me contrary to what was being built
there.
Commissioner I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying and
Gulliford: I really resent that if something was approved that
without any questions or any amendment or whatsoever
that something contrary to what was approved was done
was in fact planned and built, but ,the problem as I
see it is that the weakness in the system , the in-
adquacies of the past have been used against us in
issuing building permits so I don't see where we've
got any , you know, the burden of proof as we say,
I think rests solely on us in that respect because
we have proven in effect that we issued the permits.
I think the only question is that which has been
presented to us tonight and that's the approval of
these items.
Commissioner But, we have got to rely on our professionals as to
Jensen: whether or not to accept those improvements and Mr
Parks has said thatwhat they have built out there is
not what we approved. Is that correct?
Mr.Parks: That's correct
Commissioner All I'm talking about is the structure, the structures
Gulliford: themselves, though. We have in effect approved
that even though they deviate from what you say.
Commissioner As I understand, no. Just because the building permits
Van Ness: were issued does not preclude the fact that it was
done incorrectly. The builder himself, the developer,
is still responsible even though the building permits
indicates break in tape
AB 1301
PAGE SEVENTEEN V V
MINUTES Names of
APRIL 12, 1982 Commr s. M S Y N
E. item I5 - 5eiva Marina Darden - continued
Commissioner This is what I understand.
Van Ness: had been issued,
Commissioner Did he not submit plans for the individual structures
Gulliford: in order to secure building permits?
Commissioner
Van Ness: Yes, sir, he did.
Commissioner It was misrepresented to Moss by the builder or
Jensen: developer, whoever was obtaining the building permit
which were in fact not correct . . the attachment to
that plat is not part of the recorded plat.
Commissioner I respect what you're saying, Allen, but if, and let's
Johansen: just say for the sake of saying, in error, that a
building permit was issued, there certainly must have
been a plot plan along with it showing the size, the
width, the length, whatever. .
Commissioner Oh, he said that was
Jensen:
Commissioner I'm leading up to . . . I understand that, but I'm
ohansen: still saying are you proposing we go out and tear all
those houses down? Now, they're there and we're going
to have to find a way to service them.
Mayor Mr. Moss has just stated that when they submitted the
Persons: plans/they didn't have the sewer line layout on them.
to him
That's one of the main issues right now. . is whether
the sewer line layout is correct. He never issued any
approval of the sewer line, he just got the building
plans to the lots. I don't think we're here to
question what we should or shouldn't do with the houses.
Commissioner
Johansen: So we come right back to game one. That's where we
started off, was the sewer and water. .
Mr. Moss: That's right but we don't ever want to allow a develop-
ment to proceed and issue one permit until the develop-
ment has been accepted by the City Commission or until
a bond has been posted and I'm surprised we haven't
required it and I/urge we do so in the future, because
it is absolutelyhnohprotection whatsoever except by
sitting up there and raising our hands or withholding
permits, and that's still an option at this point,
but I'm just not sure what is going to be adviseable.
ommissioner
Johansen: I agree with you, we should have a bond.
AB 1302
PAGE EIGHTEEN V V
MINUTES
APRIL 12, 1982 Names of
Commr s. MS YN
Mr. Moss: The development bond is the total accepted practice and
if they want to build before they're completed, then
they post a bond for that part of the construction that's
not
Commissioner Now let me get this straight . . . what you're really saying
Gulliford: is that the sewer and the water were laid out for what
was proposed and accepted by the Commission.
Mr. Moss: That's correct.
Commissioner And now because the game changed there was a modification
Gulliford: of that layout in order to conform to the change. Right?
Mr. Moss: The game changed and the market changed or whatever, but
the lots were sold in a manner other than that which was
platted.
Commissioner I recognize that, but I'm talking now about the sewer and
Gulliford: the water.
Mr. Moss: The sewer and water lines were constructed according to
the plans. The size of the lot's not there anymore.
Commissioner Exactly. So now they have to be changed a little bit
Gulliford: or adapted so they would conform to the new . . . .
Commissioner
Van Ness: Either that or he tears it up and puts it back in
properly.
Mr. Dryden: You mean the lots? how do you mean?
Mr. Moss: Well, we approved a siamese connection to sewer lines
going into . . . but one sewer line spreading up going
into two, and each one to a different lot. So we've
got a sewer line here and a sewer line here. By making
these lots bigger and moving the boundary over 10 feet
we have two sewer lines going to one property and none
going to the property next door. And then two more and
then none. So in order to serve the second lot
the contractor has to run an extra line over to this
lot.
Mr. Dryden: Were the lots made bigger?
Mr. Moss: The lots were made bigger because they were sold the
original 50-foot plus 10 feet of the next lot. The
City Attorney is maintaining we have no control over
how that person sells his property. Now, that may well
be correct. But I do think we get control over how
he develops.
AB 1303
PAGE NINETEEN V V
MINUTES Names of
APRIL 12, 1982 Commrs. M S Y N
so - - - -- --- - --- - - - —ss►- moi..
Commissioner
Van Ness: Also, I think the siamese connections and the way they
were placed in the ground determine the fact that he
intended to build cluster homes back there, not single
family.
Mr. Moss: The City Commission approved the siamese connections,
right?
Commissioner
Van Ness: That's right. Thinking they would be cluster homes.
And that's the reason they are laid out the way they
are.
Commissioner Well, I just think the only way you're gonna protect
Johansen: yourself . . . obviously what you can do about what has
already taken place . . . you certainly can't go up there
and tear down those $125,000 beautiful homes that are sitting
up there. Like Mr. Moss said, we probably need to have
some sort of a bonding next time we accept a plat of that
nature, that in effect it's carried out in that manner.
A man can't come up and try to sell somebody . . . well,
if you're increasing the size of a lot, it's no longer 50
foot, it's 60 foot, it's much better than the 50 foot,
even if you have to . . .
Commissioner What he wants approval for is the water and sewer system
Jensen: that doesn't fit his existing lot.
Commissioner Well, what I'm understanding from the attorney back there
Johansen: . . there is the intent to correct that so it will fit
the existing lot.
Commissioner It gives us more pipe underground, as I understand, in
Jensen: some places the pipe will have to run as far as 40 feet.
Is that correct?
Mayor I don't understand. They say they are going to correct
Persons: the sewer system. All they said they would do is put two
new blowouts that were run over by a tractor . . .
Commissioner This is a different thing again . . .
Johansen:
Mayor The sewer system . . . Mr. Skeels, you didn't say you were
Persons: gonna change the sewer system.
Mr. Skeels: All I was talking about as far as . . . what I was addressing
myself to were repair items Mr. Parks addressed himself
to in his correspondence to the City.
AB 1304
PAGE TWENTY V V
MINUTES Names of
APRIL 12, 1982 Commrs. M S Y N
Mayor
Persons: That's the two blowouts.
Mr. Skeels: Just two blowouts that need . . . as far as this is concern .d
the as-built plans that will come in will reflect the
change in lines to conform to the existing lot lines
will come in from the people who own the lots. OK? And
we have indicated that we will make sure they come in.
Mayor They will also reflect that there is a great deal more
Persons: pipe out there . . . .
Mr. Skeels: Those lines will conform, by the way, to all
standards.
Mayor
Persons: They will also reflect that there is a great deal more
pipe/outththereuthat the City's going to have to . . . .
Mr. Skeels: Not considerably . . . we're talking about 10 feet of line
as far as the front lot line and the roadway is concerned,
ayor
ersons: About 140 feet of extra pipe, right? Every other lot?
Or do you know? 10 feet for every other lot?
Mr. Skeels: Possibly - something like that I can't address
myself to that one . . .
Mr. Ron Gray: Mr.Mayor, let me ask you a question concerning something
that Mr. Moss had on his drawing board having to
do with that property out there. If I was in that middle
lot which you showed, I'd be very upset if my sewer lines
were blocked. Likewise, if I lived next door and my
neighbor's sewer lines were blocked, I'd be upset if he
had to come digging through my yard through a siamese
connection to get to it.
Mr. Moss: Well, the City approved siamese connections and I'm not
going to argue . . .
Mr. Gray: That's got nothing to do with this . . .
Mayor We're talking about the extra 10 feet that he doesn't. . .
Persons:
Mr. Gray: Exactly. Why not connect from the main sewer line to
that middle lot.
rir. Moss: It's my contention is if we want to dig up the road and
then we pave it and hope to get a better road out of
that, my answer is you're not going to have a decent road
by the time you do that. Now, if we can do that without
AB 1305
PAGE TWENTY-ONE 5 V V
MINUTES
APRIL 12, 1982 Names of
Commrs. M S YN
Mr. Moss: cutting up the road, I have no objection to that. Mr.
Parks, would you say that in order to do it properly
he's got to dig up that road.
Commissioner Are we responsible for that road, or would he be?
Van Ness:
Mr. Moss: Well, I know, but would we accept a road that has thirty
patches in it as long as it's flat and everything else
meets the specifications?
Mayor
Persons: Would that substantially weaken the road, Mr. Parks?
Mr. Parks: Patching the pavement, in my professional opinion, and
I want this on tape, will not be the hazard to the City
in the future from the standpoint of maintenance and
system operation that leaving the sewer service connectiors
in their present locations with modifications would be.
You will have that much more pipe exposed to damage
out there within the street right-of-way, and these lines
have, no doubt, been stubbed up at the anticipated pro-
perty corners so that they would only have, say 18" to
24" of cover from the front of the lot on to the building
site. Now, if you're gonna have to take those lines
and put elbows and tees and turns in them, and run them
down the street. . .those lines have got to go uphill all
the way, they can't go downhill in some places. You've
only got so much cover. That's the problem in itself.
Mayor
Persons: Thank you.
Commissioner We're going to try and round up the livestock after it's
Gulliford: escaped from the barn in this thing, and I would say if
I asked Mr. Parks or any other engineer, from what I've
heard thusfar, what is standard accepted practice, and I
relate that to what's being proposed here, they would be
as different as night and day. And I find that not in the
best interest of the community. But, by the same token,
I do have some sympathy where somebody has gone out and
done something and spent dollars on it . . . I know it's
a real problem . . . I don't know what the answer to it is.
Mayor It's one of those situations, I think, where you're sort
Persons: of acting out your peril Do I hear a motion . . .
of any sort? To improve . . or not to approve . . or
approve with some sort of provisos in it.
Commissioner I move that we not approve it as it stands, that it will
Van Ness: have to be corrected by Mr. Bull, and that any further
building that is proposed up there will have to conform tc
AB 1306
PAGE TWENTY-TWO V V
MINUTES
APRIL 12, 1982 Names of
Commrs. M S Y N
Commissioner
Van Ness: the understanding of the PUD as it was passed for cluster
homes that will meet it as it was planned. Anything
else is proving Mr. Bull is doing it Mr. Bull's way
again, one more time.
Mayor
Persons: We have a motion. Do we have a second?
Commissioner
Jensen I second it.
Mayor
Persons: A motion and a second. Do we have any further discussion
Anybody want to clear this . . . one last time before we
call for a vote.
Commissioner Now, it is clear that the water system hasn't been approv d?
Jensen: Is that correct? A proper statement?
Mayor
Persons: As far we know, it has been given the OK, but not the
formal OK.
Moss: It's met all the required tests.
Commissioner
Jensen: And it's our legal opinion that if we accept it, we're
not exposing ourselves to anything?
Mr. Ball: Not to any State liability or federal liability.
Mayor
Persons: Just the cost of repairing the sewer lines, water . . . .
Commissioner
Jensen: What if somebody out there drinks some bad water and
dies after the City has accepted the water.
Mr. Ball: That's based on our sanitary inspections, etc. , that it
is safe and adequate at this time . . . that opinion . . .
If we accept it, of course, we're not liable for future
Acts of God or poisoning or anything like that unless
we are negligent somewhere in the future.
Commissioner Mr. Parks, can I ask you a question? Could you approxima e
Gulliford: what you feel like the cost to make that water and sewer
comply with accepted practice of standards might be . . .
in other words, to change what exists right now and make
it comply with what you would you consider to be
standard in the industry.
Mr. Parks: Mr. Gulliford, I haven't made out the first mental
attempt to appraise it.
AB 1307
PAGE TWENTY-THREE
V V
MINUTES Names of
APRIL 12, 1982 Commrs. MS Y N
Commissioner I wasn't attempting to put you on the spot.
Gulliford:
Mr. Parks: Oh, I would hazard a guess at it this time, by just
purely reaching up and pulling a figure off the wall . .
would be correct somewhere around $2,000 - 2,500. That
is purely a "guesstimate".
Commissioner You're talking about all these changes we have been talkiig
Johansen: about for this long and this hard . . a total cost of
$2,500.
Mr. Parks: Now, I'll tell you how you can avoid all this and I don't
mean to seem rude. And that is to let the builders
and contractors and the developers do what they want and
then when they get it built come in and ask for a
blessing.
Commissioner
Johansen: No, but I just think that we have talked about something
here that to me has sounded like a major project.
. Parks: In Atlantic Beach, it can be.
Commissioner
Johansen: Well, I understand. You're talking about approving
something . . that you're saying . . . and I'm not holding
you to the number . . . you're saying that a contractor
or developer or whoever could correct, for $2,500 or so
dollars and have no problems at all? I don't know . .
I'm not an engineer and I'm not a developer . . but you're
talking about that . . . . I mean I've just gotten the
impression from the conversation that we were talking
about some real . . . .
Mr. Moss: Well, maybe I just don't understand what is going to
happen. Mr. Parks, if he builds according to his origina
plan, then he has to run a siamese connection from the
main to each of the property lines. Are we not required
to move the original lateral, at least 10 feet over,
maybe more, for each, for every other pumping line,
all the way to the main, so you will have to cut the road
Mr. Parks: If you define them to that extent.
Mr. Moss: OK, if he has to rebuild according to our original plan,
then it's going to be substantially more than $2,500.
Mr. Parks: Conceivably, yes.
AB 1308
PAGE TWENTY-FOUR V V
MINUTES Names of
APRIL 12, 1982 Commr s. M S Y N
Commissioner He does not have to go back in with siamese connections.
Van Ness: Preferably, there will be just straight lines to the
main sewer line.
Mr. Moss: But he'd still have to cut the street to get to the main
sewer line. It's underneath the street. And he's
going to have to do that . . . I might be wrong . . . twelve
times, at least.
Mayor We have a motion and a second. We need to do something.
Persons:
Commissioner I personally need more information on this before I . . .
Johansen: I'm getting a little more confused as it goes along.
Commissioner I'd like to table the motion until we find out more.
Gulliford:
Mayor
Persons: We have a request to table this motion until we can get
more input on what's going to cost . . . that's what you
want to know, is what it's going to cost and what will
be involved . . . .
,,immissioner Yes, we're being asked to make a decision. I don't know
Gulliford: what Robert's Rules of Order you're the Parliamentarian.
Mayor Do you move to table?
Persons:
l
Commissioner Yes.
Gulliford:
Commissioner
Johansen: I second.
Mayor There's a motion and second to table this one until, I
Persons: guess, next week.
Commissioner Until the next meeting. I would like to know, specifically,
Gulliford: what kind of costs you're talking about and exactly what
would be done.
Mr. Moss: Now, you see, if you want us to prepare the estimate,
we will be happy to do that, but then we pay the cost of
getting that estimate to you. If that's what you want,
OK, but if you ask the developer to do it, you might not
have it next week.
yor Well, I think if he wants us to rule on this, he ought to
Persons: bring it to us. h p tt
Mr. Moss: And everything stops/on tIiis development until we get
this resolved?
AB 1309
•
• PAGE TWENTY-FIVE V V
MINUTES Names of
APRIL 12, 1982 Commrs. M S Y N
E. Item #5- Selva Marina Garden - continued
Commissioner Well, everything's going to stop if Mrs. Van Ness' motion
Gulliford: passes anyway.
Commissioner Then he can come back at any time and ask us to accept it.
Jensen:
Commissioner What is before us tonight is whether we want to accept
Jensen: what's out there now.
Commissioner What was Mrs. Van Ness' motion?
Gulliford:
Commissioner That we don't accept it.
Jensen:
Commissioner I'll remove my motion to table.
Gulliford:
Mayor
Persons: You've removed your motion?
Commissioner
illiford: Yes. And call for the question.
Mayor
Persons: Call the question. All those in favor, signify by saying
aye.
(Those in favor said aye)
Mayor
Persons: Opposed?
(Those opposed said no)
Mayor Four to one. The ayes have it. Johansen voted no.
Persons:
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
F. Item #6 - Emergency Purchase of Filtration Blower for the Wastewater
Treatment Plant.
Mayor Persons stated that Mr. Moss had made the item self-explanatory
in his background information. The city has lost a filtration blower
and we urgently need another one.
Gulliford x x
Motion: Authorize the City Manager to purchase a filtration blower Jensen x
from the Fullerton Factory for an amount of $10,400. Johansen x x
Van Ness x
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Persons x
AB 1310
• V V
PAGE TWENTY-SIX
MINUTES Names of
APRIL 12, 1982 Commr s. MS Y N
1
G. Item #7- Request by Mr. Tommy Lyles to Construct a Two-Car Garage
in a Business B District
Mayor Persons stated that Mr. Tommy Lyles has requested a business license
to operate an upholstery shop at 66 Ardella Road, which is zoned Business
B. The proposed zoning will be RG-2. Discussion followed .
Gulliford x x
Motion: Approve the request submitted by Mr. Tommy Lyles to constructJensen x x
an upholstery shop at 66 Ardella Road. Johansen x
Van Ness x
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Persons x
H. Item #8 - Award of Contract for a Steam Cleaner
The bid opening was held on April 7, 1982 at 9:30 a.m. Two bids were
received and opened as listed below:
Gateway Chemicals
724 Golfair Blvd.
Jax,Fla. $1,345.00
Universal Mfg.& Supply
P. 0. Box 1763
Jax, Fla. 1,395.00
Mr. Moss recommended that the contract be awarded to the low bidder,
Gateway Chemicals of Jacksonville, Fla. in the amount of $1,345.00.
Motion: Award the contract for a steam cleaner to Gateway Chemicals Gulliford x x
of Jacksonville, Florida, in the amount of $1,345.00, to be Jensen x
charged to the General Fund Capital Account. Johansen x x
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Van Ness x
Persons x
I. Item #9 - Minimum Requirements for Subdivisions
Mayor Persons acknowledged receipt of the preliminary draft on the minirum
requirements for subdivisions and suggested the Commission review it
and discuss at a later date. Commissioner Gulliford opined that he
would like to have Mr. Parks comments as so much of it does involve
the engineering project, and also comments from Mr. Bull, Treco, and
other contractors. Mayor Persons asked what mechanism should be used
for putting them on notice, and Commissioner Gulliford asked the City
Manager to send copies out to each of the above mentioned.
J. Item #10- Reorganization of Transportation Division
Mr. Moss verbally presented background information on his plans for
reorganization of the transportation division. (copy of city manager's
port is attached hereto and made a part hereof). Mayor Persons said,
he understood, Mr. Moss's position was that the central garage concert
is not providing adequate support for the vehicles the city has, and
also for the city's equipment. Commissioner Johansen asked if the depart-
ment should be abolished, and Mr. Moss stated he would like the latitude
to scale down the central repair activity and place greater reliance on -
AB 1311
. • .
PAGE TWENTY-SEVEN V V
MINUTES Names of
APRIL 12, 1982 Commr s. M S Y N
J. Item #10 - Reorganization of Transportation Division - continued
on contractual maintenance of vehicles and equipment.He did not plan to
dive right in to a total elimination of any type of men, instead he would
look at something more like someone that had more skills in machinery,
but also would have other responsibilities in Public Works and would not
have the sole position of being mechanic. Commissioner Gulliford expressed
the opinion that it was unrealistic for the city to have someone that can
repair the vast myriad of equipment that the city is operating right
now, and wholeheartedly agreed that it would be wise to have someone for
maintenance, but rely on some type of contractual agreement for repairs
to city vehicles and phase out even more the central garage. Let the
private sector do that as they are better equipped at it.
Gulliford x x
Motion: Grant the City Manager the authority to scale down the Jensen x
central repair activity and place greater reliance on con- Johansen x
tractual maintenance of vehicles and equipment. Van Ness x x
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Persons x
Unfinished Business
A. Planned Unit Development Application-Ernest "Rocky"Russell-Saltair
Subdivision Lot 691
For the benefit of the audience, Mr. Moss stated that the City Commission
had approved, on March 8, 1982 Mr. Russell's application to construct
a triplex on lot 691, Saltair Subdivision, as a tentative plan subject
to the requirement that he provide to the City various alternatives for
parking. Two additional parking proposals were presented to the Commis-
sion along with the original plan. The Mayor then declared the floor
open for a Public Hearing. As no one spoke for or against, the Mayor
declared the Public Hearing closed. The Commission entered into a
discussion as to which parking proposal would best suit the lot. Commis-
sioner Jensen asked Mr. Russell for his preference, and he answered the
original plan as it would leave more trees and shrubbery on the lot. He
added that he would only be covering 30% of the lot and normal coverage
for the area is 35%.
Gulliford x
Motion: Accept Mr. Russell's application and leave it to the discre- Johansen x
tion of the developer how he wants to put the parking.
Amended Motion: Accept Mr. Russell's application to construct a trip-Gulliford x x
lex on lot 691, Saltair Subdivision, and locate the parking Jensen x
as the developer originally proposed. Johansen x x
Van Ness X
The Motion carried with four voting aye and Commissioner Van Ness Persons x
voting no.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
)ort of Committees
Payor Persons noted that one item had been brought to his attention by
the committee chosen to screen the applicants for a new City Clerk. That
was a request for clarification by former Mayor William S. Howell
AB 1312
♦ •
PAGE TWENTY-EIGHT V V
MINUTES Names of
APRIL 12, 1982 Commrs. M S Y N
- .... .
Report of Committees - continued
who asked if typing minutes verbatim was a criteria for the new City
Clerk. Discussion followed. Commissioner Van Ness expressed the opinion
that the new City Clerk should be someone who has a very capable adept-
ness on the typewriter, who could type minutes verbatim, if necessary.
She stated that at one of the committee's meetings, she had expressed
the opinion that the clerk should be able to type the minutes verbatim,
upon request. Commissioner Gulliford suggested that the Mayor advise
the committee that typing minutes verbatim is not a requirement, but
the Commission feels that the person should be able to type within the
range of 55 to 60 words per minute. Commission agreed that this was
an accepted general requirement.
Action on Ordinances-AN ORDINANCE REGULATING VEHICLES STOPPING, STAND-
ING AND PARKING - THIRD AND FINAL READING -PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED
Mayor Persons asked Commissioner Jensen if he found any problems in
his comparison of the Ordinance with the State Statutes. He answered
no, per se, but for the Commission's information, he stated that many
items are duplications as they are already in the State Statutes. He
listed a few other minor differences and added that anything the City
has that is more strict than the State Statutes (Chapter 316) the City
Ll have a problem enforcing if it goes to court. Mayor Persons declar-
__ the Public Hearing re-opened. Mr. Jones, 485 Sailfish Drive, objected
to not being allowed to park his $100,000 tractor in his yard overnight.
A lengthy discussion followed on Section 7 concerning street and private
parking of tractor-trailer type trucks and weight limitations. Mrs. Ruth
Gregg, 905 Sailfish, commented that if the property has a drive-way, all
persons should be made to pull their vehicles into the drive-way. The
aesthetic value of not having tractor-trailer type trucks, buses, or
trucks such as potato chips or bread parked in residential areas was
also discussed. Commissioner Van Ness moved the following:
Motion: Amend Section 7-1 to add Gulliford X
(c) to define component part. Jensen x
Component part shall include the tractor unit or trailer Johansen X
unit of tractor-trailer type truck.
Van Ness x x
The motion carried with three ayes and two nos. Persons x x
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Commissioner Van Ness also moved for another amendment to Section 7-2:
Gulliford x
Motion: Amend Section 7-2 to add after the word trailer "or commer- Jensen x
cial vehicle in excess of 10,000 G.V.W. upon any street Johansen x x
or right of way." Van Ness x x
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Persons x
Commissioner Johansen made the motion to delete in Section 1 the words
"in the direction of the traffic", and leave this to the discretion of Johansen x
Chief of Police. The motion died for lack of a second.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Gulliford x x
Motion:Amend Section 2-(c) by striking the words unless otherwise Jensen
and add where. The section 2-(c) will read: Within 20 feet `�ohaDjPen x x X
of an intersection where posted; Persons x
The motion carried with four ayes and one no. AB 1313
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
•
PAGE TWENTY-NINE V V
MINUTES Names of
APRIL 12, 1982 Commrs. M S Y N
In au ,
Action on Ordinances - continued-Ordinance No.75-82-3-Regulating Vehicles
stopping, standing and parking
Commissioner Gulliford moved for the following:
Gulliford x x
Motion: Move to strike (g) under Section 2 (1) . Jensen x
Johansen x x
The motion carried unanimously. Van Ness x
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Persons x
Gulliford x x
Motion: Said Ordinance be passed on third and final reading, as Jensen x
amended by the various motions as listed above. Johansen x x
The motion carried with four ayes and one no. Van Ness X
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Persons x
B. Ordinance No. 5-82-8
AN ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTION THIRTY-TWO (32) AND SECTION THIRTY-FOUR
(34) OF ARTICLE IV OF THE ATLANTIC BEACH CITY CHARTER (CHAPTER 57-1126,
LAWS OF FLORIDA, AS AMENDED) . ENTITLED "CITY COMPTROLLER" AND "CITY
TREASURER; PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.
Said Ordinance was presented in full, in writing, by Mayor Persons,
d read by title only, on first reading.
Mayor Persons noted that the Ordinance had been prepared by the City
Attorney for the purpose of changing the position of City Treasurer/
Comptroller from a mandatory to a discretionary function of the Commission.
This was accomplished by changing the word"shall"to"may" in Sections 1
and 2.
Gulliford x x
Motion:Said Ordinance be passed on first reading, by title only. Jensen x
Johansen x x
The motion carried unanimously. Van Ness x
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Persons x
Mayor Persons stated that since the Commission is in the process of
selecting a new City Clerk, he asked that the Ordinance be read on
second reading, under emergency provisions, by title only.
Gulliford x x
Motion: The Ordinance be read on second reading, under emergency Jensen x
provisions, by title only.
Johansen x
The motion carried unanimously. Van Ness x x
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Persons x
AN ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTION THIRTY-TWO(32) AND SECTION THIRTY-FOUR(34)
OF ARTICLE IV OF THE ATLANTIC BEACH CITY CHARTER (CHAPTER 57-1126, LAWS
OF FLORIDA, AS AMENDED) . ENTITLED "CITY COMPTROLLER" AND "CITY TREASURED
PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.
d Ordinance was presented in full, in writing, by Mayor Persons,
read by title only, on second reading, under emergency provisions.
AB 1314
A •
PAGE THIRTY V V
MINUTES Names of
APRIL 12, 1982 Commr s. MS Y N
Action on Ordinances - continued - No. 5-82-8
Motion: Said Ordinance be passed on second reading, by title only, Gulliford x
under emergency provisions. Jensen x x
Johansen x
The motion carried unanimously. Van Ness x x
The Public Hearing was set for April 26, 1982. Persons x
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Miscellaneous Business
The Chair recognized Mr. Reuben Bennett, who requested permission to
erect a commercial building on Mayport Road, to house a generator and
starter shop. The location is not zoned for this type of business.
Mayor Persons suggested that he furnish all the information to the
City Manager and he will place it on the agenda at a later date.
There being no further business to come before the Commission, the
Mayor declared the meeting adjourned.
Robert B. ersons, Jr.
(SEAL) Mayor-Commissioner
ATTEST:
Adelaide R. Tucker
City Clerk
AB 1315