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10-06-66 v MINUTES OF THE SPECIAL MEETING OF THE ATLANTIC BEACH CITY COMMISSION HELD AT THE CITY HALL ON THURSDAY, OCTOBER 6TH, 1966 AT 8 P.M. Present: Wm S. Howell, Mayor-Commissioner Donald L. Goodling Louis Holloway, Jr. Walter J. Parks, Jr. , Commissioners and Frank Thompson, City Attorney Murray H. Bennett, City Manager Adele S. Grage, City Clerk Absent: John W. Weldon, Commissioner (out of City) This Special Meeting was called pursuant to notice by the Mayor in line with requirements of the City Charter. The meeting was called to order by the Mayor-Commissioner, Mr. Howell. The Invocation was given by Commissioner Parks. The following is a transcript of and is hereby made the minutes of this Special Meeting: MINUTES OF THE SPECIAL MEETING OF THE ATLANTIC BEACH CITY COMMISSION ON OCTOBER 6, 1966, PURSUANT TO NOTICE BY THE MAYOR, HELD AT CITY HALL. (j `YL PRESENT: WILLIAM S. HOWELL, Mayor-Commissioner DONALD L. GOODLING LOUIS C. HOLLOWAY, JR. WALTER J. PARKS , JR. , Commissioners and FRANK THOMPSON, City Attorney MURRAY H. BENNETT, City Manager ADE LE S. GRACE, City Clerk w. MAYOR HOWELL: The meeting will now come to order and we' ll have the invocation by Mr. Parks. MR. PARKS: Our Heavenly Father, as we assemble this evening in Special Meeting of this City Commission, guide and direct our efforts to the end that this municipality shall have better government and help us as Commissioners to be good representatives of the people and to make decisions with wisdom. Forgive us of our sins . This we ask in Jesus ' name, amen. MAYOR HOWELL: In order to make a clarifying statement before this meeting gets underway, there has SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA appeared in the newspapers in the last coupLe of day certain releases which, apparently, are growing into great proportions. As a matter of fact, if this thing was allowed to continue, in my judgment, it was going to turn into the greatest catastrophy since the .ii.wb:Li.i Nagasaki and Hiroshima. So it seemed wise to me that: these things be cleared up because many times there are misunderstandings . Now, a Special Meeting is called to consider special things only. The City Commission meets in regular session on the second and fourth Mondays of every month; at which time any citizen may bring up any business that he wishes , but a Special Meeting is called for a specific purpose, and this is a Special Meeting. And we 're to consider only those things that have come up in the last couple of days in the papers. For instance, the so-called news censorship and resignations from clubs. That is all that will be considered tonight; no other business will be heard. Now, do you have any remark you wish to make, Mr . r"yy MR. I have this article here. The article published in the October 5, 1966, Jacksonville Journal , when my name was mentioned , I want it recorded SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE. FLORIDA 3 in the records I have nothing further to say. So we' ll turn it over to the City Commissioners . MR. GOODLING: Are you going to record it? MAYOR HOWELL: Does anyone have a copy of it? If so, I shall so read it. MR. BENNETT: I have a copy. MAYOR HOWELL: Do you want this whole thing read? MR. BENNETT: As it was written. MAYOR HOWELL: If you will bear with me, I' LL read to you from the October 5, 1966 edition of the Jacksonville Journal. "ATLANTIC BENNETT UNDER FIRE. "By Bill Scrimpshiri. "Atlantic Beach City Manager Murray Bennett has ordered all city empLoyees holding free memberships in ' local clubs or organizations ' to give them up immediately, the Journal has Learned . "In a letter posted on all departmental bulletin boards , Bennett said: 'ALL employees of the City of Atlantic Beach are hereby requested not to accept gratuities ; such as free memberships in LocaL clubs or organizations ; or any substantial gifts from suppliers or individuals . " 'Those with free gratis memberships are hereby r i SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE. FLORIDA 1 requested to resign immediately, giving me a copy of the resignation for the records. ' "This means that at least 10 city employees -- including Police Chief Robert Vogel and Public works Director Richard Hilliard -- must resign from the Atlant.:_,. Beach Hotel' s Club-By-The-Sea. "Vogel, Hilliard, Mayor William S. Howell and other city officials and employees were given free memberships in the club by Hotel Manager Martin H. Bagedonow. "Bennett, who was named city manager by a three-two City Commission vote, earlier ordered Chief Vogel to clea._l aLL Local news and including routing traffic accidents and fire calls through him. "In a Letter to the Journal, the hotel manager said: " 'Dear Sir: " ' It has been brought to my attention that Mr. Murray H. Bennett has issued a directive to city employees of Atlantic Beach to resign from clubs that they have received a complimentary membership in . " ' Since we have extended memberships to the police and fire department , I wish to make a statement. We made no special request for any special service from either department. We feel that since public servants are not overly well paid that this extra service we as a taxpayer SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA could provide would help keep this fine group of men here in Atlantic Beach. At no time has any of these men abused any privilege. `• ' On the other hand, Mr. Bennett has constantly asked special privileges as a tenant in our apartments . I so informed him and the city council in a Letter dated September 8 . " ' I would Like to know why Mr. Bennett can penalize the entire police and fire departments and families, men who have experience and are devoted to their duty, when he as a newcomer totally without background, experience or know-how can make personnel demands . 'How long is this bull-and-china going to be tolerated? When are the commissioners going to act to restrain this know-nothing, do-nothing City Manager?'" • Signed 'O Martin H. Bagedonow.'1 { That seems to be the article in its entirety. 2 I MR. GOODLING: Mr. Chairman, to my knowledge, I have not met Mr. Bagedonow. I had a telephone conversation, , the caller identifying himself, as such. I would Like to ask if you would determine if Mr. Bagedonow is present in the room? MAYOR HOWELL: Is Mr. Bagedonow in the audience? MR. BAGEDONOW: Yes . • SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA MR. GOUDLING: He seem ; most concerned, but since this was a telephone conversation and not a matter of record, I think it would be proper for the City Commissioner to provide Mr. Bagedonow an opportunity at this time, if he so chose, to make any statement relating to the alleged letter written by him. MAYOR HOWELL: Well, in a few moments , after the Commissioners have anything they want to say, I' LL be happy to hear from anybody in the audience. You can have it now or Later. MR. GOODLING: I think we should offer him the opportunity, first, since his name has been brought up on the table. MAYOR HOWELL: Do you have any statement to make, Mr. Bagedonow? MR. BAGEDONOW: Yes , I do. Mr . Mayor , first of all, I'd Like to make this li statement if I would: That I'm speaking as an individual , (( plus the fact that I'm here tonighthas caused me to be fired. Mr. GoodLing called Mr. Winston who was my employer this morning and asked that I neither appear nor speak at the meeting tonight. My employers told me that should I appear at this meeting tonight, and should I voice my SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA opinion, that it would be considered a resignation of my job. But I think it' s important enough that neither I nor anyone else be gagged. That was my objection, originally. Now , I 'd like to read a prepared statement which will be available for anyone that wants a copy of it when I'm through speaking. MAYOR HOWELL: Is this statement , now , in connection with, Mr. Bagedonow, the calling of this meeting and for the purposes which I previously stated and are they -- MR. BAGEDONOW: Yes, Mr. Mayor, it is. I have a series of correspondence with Mr. Bennett concerning the special privilege charge. I have the club membership resignations and I have a first-hand knowledge of the fact that the police and firemen are no Longer allowed to issue any statements , and the reason that this was given, and I'd like to make this perfectly plain. I think, Mr. Mayor, that since I'm resigning a job in order to crake this statement that I should have the benefit of a full and uninterrupted hearing. MR. PARKS : Mr. Mayor , I 'd Like to interrupt the gentleman to ask if this concerns his relationship with Mr. Bennett in his capacity as City Manager of Atlantic Beach, or in his capacity as an individual, a tenant at SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA the property? MR. BAGEDONOW: First, Mr. Parks , because Mr. Bennett has chosen to intertwine the two things . This is the unfortunate thing and this is my contention where Mr. Bennett has abused his public office and that, as a tenant, he was entitled to certain things. We have a copy of the lease which I am perfectly willing to offer here to the Commission , but Mr . Bennett, above and beyond the agreement that he made, came to me, as manager of the hotel, made demands and then, in his capacity as City Manager, attempted to impose restrictions and to persecute me in my job because I would not allow him special privilege in the hotel. And in his apartment. I have a Letter that Mr . Bennett wrote on City stationery which I would Like to submit with my answer , of which the entire City Council has a copy. You, Mr. Parks , received a copy along with Mr. Goodling, Mr. i Weldon, the Mayor -- MR. PARKS: Mr. Mayor, if this pertains to personal business between Mr. Bagedonow and Mr. Bennett, it' s out of order. MAYOR HOWELL: Yes, it is. I don ' t know that the point -- it becomes difficult to decide when it becomes personal and when it is not personal. - E SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE. FLORIDA 9 MR. BAGEDONOW: Mr. Mayor, may I reiterate and I think it' s quite clear that when I've come to this community and I'm willing to forfeit my job which is a substantial job and contract to come here and to clarify a public issue, I think I should be allowed to first present something. Mr. Parks is ® king an effort to rule out what I want to present before I've even presented it. We have heard from Mr . Goodling and Mr. Parks. In Mr. Weldon ' s absence, we have a Martin, Barton and Fish thing that Mr. Roosevelt referred to in 1932 that we' re facing in Goodling, Weldon and Parks, the same three men that placed Mr. Bennett in office. MAYOR HOWELL: Let ' s keep it down to the issues that -- for what tills meeting is called for. Now, we' re going to have to do that. It wa. called as I stated before, to clarify these two things. MR. BAGEDONOW: Mr. Mayor, will you accept the letter written on stationery of the City of Atlantic Beach by Mr. Bennett for reading? May I read the letter? MAYOR HOWELL: Is this a letter dated September 8th? MR. BAGEDONOW: No, sir; it' s a letter dated August 30th, where Mr. Bennett makes a statement in his capacity as City Manager , and this is one of the cases where I claim that he' s abused the privilege of the SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE. FLORIDA LU City Manager. MAYOR HOWELL: Well, Mr. Bagedonow, we' re not here to Level charges against the City Manager . MR. BAGEDONOW: Mr. Mayor , the charges have been leveled. Mr. Bennett read into the record that I made an accusation. Mr. GoodLing asked that I substantiate this accusation. I'm prepared to use a Letter that Mr . Bennett has written on the stationery of the City of Atlantic Beach to substantiate these charges. Now, will I be allowed to use this Letter, Mr . Mayor? MR. THOMPSON: It' s within your province to Look at the Letter and see if it ' s relevant to the issue , and then if it is not, to rule it out or rule it in. MAYOR HOWELL: Can I see the letter? MR. BAGEDONOW: Surely. Here' s the Letter and here' s the answer . (Hands to Mayor Howell) MAYOR HOWELL: Do you deem that is relevant to the purpose of the meeting (handing documents to Mr. Thompson) ? MR. THOMPSON: There' s no reference to the published thing, of course, as you can readily see. MAYOR HOWELL: Mr . Bagedonow, the City Attorney -- SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE. FLORIDA 11 MR. BAGEDONOW: Mr. Mayor , I' ll read it Monday night, if I'm not permitted to read it tonight. Because it' s my understanding that Monday night I can read anything. So we' ll read it Monday night, if I'm not permitted to read it now, but it' s my contention it is relevant because it' s my contention that letter asks for special privilege on Mr. Bennett' s behalf and that' s what my Letter to the press indicated and my letter to the Mayor indicated that Mr. Bennett had requested special privilege and I contend that substantiates the fact that Mr. Bennett had asked for special privilege. Now, further , with reference to this article, we can take the article -- we' re going to take it in the Literal context, as you' ve interpreted it. Now, the first thing is a question of censorship. Approximately two weeks ago, Sheriff Carson was in touch with Mr. Culverhouse , one of the gentlemen who owned the 1 Atlantic Beach Hotel and at that time it was discussed ti that wvuLd it be possibLe for me to assist in a function for the Boys' Ranch that would be held some place in the beach area. Mr. Culverhouse had no objection, and on that basis , in fact, he concurred it would be a fine thing to help the Boys ' Ranch, and on that basis , a !� 'I I dinner was held at the Atlantic Beach Hotel where Sheriff SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER .JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 12 and Mrs. Carson, the Chief of Police, the Chief of the Fire Department of Atlantic Beach and a member of the Fire 041,1„,,e_ Department, Mr. Bain, were in attendance. It was decided at this meeting that not I, that the others present, were to explore the potential of having this function held in the Jacksonville Beach Auditorium and I volunteered because of prior experience to offer my services to coordinate the background, not the public relations, nor the sale, nor the formal presentation to the public , but to coordinate what I call the "back of the house" towards attempting to make a successful effort for this function. It has been brought to my attention subsequent that because an article appeared in the press which mentioned my name in conjunction with the Police and Fire Department that Mr. Bennett has imposed censorship on the Police and Fire Department and demanded that in the future all statements be cleared through the office of the City Manager. Further, along with the context of the article, over a number of years prior to Mr. Winston or Mr. Culverhouse' s ownership of the Atlantic Beach Hotel and the swimming club attached to it, it had been Mr. Adams' custom over a period of many, many years as proprietor of the hotel, and as a member of the community, to extend SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER 111 JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 13 the privilege of the use of the pooL to the Police and Fire Department and also to life guards . We, on acquisition of the hotel -- or my owners on acquisition of the hotel -- felt that this was a desirable public service. We not only extended the privilege to the Fire and Police Departments , but we also extended it to the life guards so that they could hold their weekly practice in the pool at the hotel. We extended the privilege of the use of the pier for life guard purposes through the City of Atlantic Beach at the request of Mr. Hilliard. We, during my tenure, have at no time made any special request of the Fire or Police Department and I defy anyone to show me where we I have or to bring it forward at this meeting. We never required any special service. We never asked for any special privilege. We feel that we were performing a public duty as a citizen and as a taxpayer in this community. We are also aware of the fact that Selva Marina , another club in the community, has extended the same privilege, not to all, but to several members of the municipality. We feel that this is a direct sLap in the face to ourselves and to Selva Marina. We ask and we wonder -- I ask and I wonder -- by SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE. FLORIDA 14 what authority Mr. Bennett could deny these men the privilege of the use of the pool; could deny it to thei-_ families , as I stated in my article. I wonder if any records of this Council show that Mr. Bennett approached the Mayor or any of the Councilmen to support him in this matter? I wonder if the Council has ever taken a position in the past with knowledge , over a period of 20 years , that the hotel has existed and the Adams family extended these privileges? I wonder if at any time the Council has discussed this matter and decided not to allow these men to join this club? I wonder why Mr . Craig, fully knowledgeable and in receipt of a membership, then City Manager , why he -- i if he felt it was not justifiable for the men to have these memberships , did not bring it before the Council? I wonder why the Mayor did not return the membership, if he felt that it wasn't proper for a City Official to receive the membership? I wonder why the Mayor, with full knowledge at the time that these memberships were given out, did not then, request that the men not use the memberships and return - !I them, if that was not proper for them to receive? SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE. FLORIDA ! I Obviously, the Mayor had no objection. Obviously, the then City Manager had no objection. Obviously, the Mayor of Jacksonville Beach and the Mayor of Neptune Beach had no objection because they, too, received these memberships and have been receiving them over a period of years. I wonder why the Mayor didn't refuse a membership at SeLva Merina? vJhy this suddenly has become an issue under Mr. Bennett? Is Mr. Bennett attacking the hotel or is Mr. Bennett seeking good government in our community? Is Mr. Bennett seeking to embarrass the Chief of Police? Is Mr. Bennett seeking to embarrass the police and the Mayor in his capacity and in his job . Why did Mr. GoodLing, relative to this evening' s discussion, call my employers and force me in a position to resign a job that pays in excess of $20,000 a year , far more than Mr. Bennett' s city employee job , so that I could come here tonight and sit like a mouse in the corner instead of bringing the facts to the oregound'' No job, no amount of money means that much to me that I'm going to be cornered, nor allow the City, any city government in this country that I Live in, to be put in that position. And I hope to come back, Mr. Mayor , SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE. FLORIDA 16 on Monday night without restriction and read these Letters which I think are pertinent and relevant and in the interim I plan to give them to the press of this City. MAYOR HOWELL: Thank you, sir . Mr. GoodLing, you still have the floor . MR. GOODLING: Mr. Chairman, there have been a number of statements there. One of which is relevant to your call for the meeting without question. It might help clarify the situation if I would say that I endorsed the City Manager' s request to the employees of this city that they refrain from accepting gratuities. I think that public employees ' actions and activities should at all times be above reproach. I believe we have a good group of city employees and I believe that their desires are to so conduct themselves and it seems to me when an issue like this does develop, that in the case of gratuities, it does cloud it with a bit of suspicion. The best solution is to -- MR. BAGEDONOW: Mr. Mayor -- MR. GOODLING: -- follow the City Manager' s request. MR. BAGEDONOW: Mr . Mayor, Mr. GoodLing hasn't answered whether he called my boss this morning and asked for my removal and my being bottled up tonight. Mr. Goodling speaks in a vague platitude about gratuities and SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 17 1 makes vague accusations. Let us substantiate where we -- MAYOR HOWELL: Mr. Goodling can answer this , if he wants to. This is totally irrelevant to the reason the meeting was called. If Mr. Goodling wants to answer it, I' ll certainly, by all means, give him the opportunity to do so. MR. GOODLING: I will in a moment. I would Like to have your permission to speak to Mr. Thompson in private before I do. MAYOR HOWELL: ALL right, do you have any more you want to say at this moment? MR. GOODLING: No . MAYOR HOWELL: Mr. Parks , anything you want to say? 4 MR. PARKS: Mr. Howell, I'm sure that the principals involved in the ownership of the Atlantic Beach Hotel, both being respectable gentlemen, regret having their names involved in this dispute. I'm interested as a result of Mr. Bagedonow' s statement that he made from the floor a while ago, as to why the decision was made that the Atlantic Beach Hotel be utilized by the Atlantic Beach Police Department and Fire Department, without consultation with any City officials for the purpose of sponsoring and promoting a benefit for the Sheriff' s Boy' s Ranch? S i SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA II ! 18 Now, let me comment here and I want this clearly understood. The jheriffs Boys' Ranch is a fine institutio . It's a worthy charity for any individual in this room. But that is beside the point in this instance. The Atlantic Beach Police Department and the Atlantic Beach Fire Department, if I understand city government, are under the direction of the Director of Public Safety who, in this instance, is the City Manager, and whose office is in the City HaLL. Now, it troubles me why a decision was made to utilize those departments without any contact, any clearance or anything else with the City Manager or with the Mayor, or, apparently, any other city officials. I would appreciate an answer to that. MR. HOLLOWAY: Mr. Parks, maybe I can help you on that subject. I have contacted the Chief of Police this afternoon, before this meeting, and asked to get his views on this subject, and he stated to me this : I asked him, specifically, I said, "Chief, would you mind filling me in on some information?" And he said the day that Mr. Bennett took office, he went to Mr. Bennett' s office and asked Mr. Bennett if there was anything he would like for him to do, and Mr. Bennett explained to him, "You carry on your duties just as you have before," with no specific SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 19 instructions, one way or the other, how to operate the police force and so Chief Vogel took this upon himself as a clireative i:o operate in this manner : That he had authority to do the extracurricular activities without going through the City Manager' s office. MR. PARKS: Commissioner Holloway, I'd like to -- I'm not differing with your statement. I appreciate it, but I would appreciate at this point, with the Mayor's permission, having the City Attorney render us an opinion on the propriety of the Atlantic Beach Police Department and/or Fire Department, as a part of the municipal organization, attempting such a benefit under that identity rather than the Police Benevolent Association or other identity other than as specific employees of the City of Atlantic Beach? MAYOR HOWELL: Will you comment, Mr. Thompson? MR. THOMPSON: Of course, if it is to be done as a city-endorsed and sponsored thing, it should have the approval of this Commission, Mr. Parks . If that answers your question. I don't know that under the circumstances of that, if the City could be held responsible for the operation of that or for any obligations that might be incurred. Legally, I don' t think so. I do see room for people to contend that it is a City function and might i I SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 20 lead to a misunderstanding of some sort . Does that answer your question? MR. PARKS: I judge from what you say, counselor, then, that there would conceivably be an implied responsibility on the part of the City, if not a technical one? MR. THOMPSON: I think it could well be understood that way and people could be misled to that end. I do think, as a legal proposition, it would require the endorsement of the Commission and where the power to obligate the City is vested, not in the Chief of Police or the Fire Department. MR. BAGEDONOW: Mr. Mayor, at the meeting at no time was it ever discussed and Mr. Carson and the Chief of Police can verify this, at no time was it discussed that this was to be an Atlantic Beach function. At no time was there any association of these men in their official capacity. The entire project was to be sponsored by the Sheriff' s Office and we, the Chief, the Chief of the Fire { Department, the other persons involved, were contributing their time and effort to a worthwhile charity, as private citizens and not in an official capacity. They had been invited, not to my knowledge, because I was not aware of who was going to be at that dinner. In fact, I was SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 21 surprised there was more than the sheriff and his wife. I didn't expect other people to attend. But at no time was it contemplated that anything official either by this municipality or by any other municipality would take part in this particular function. This was a gathering of people of good will who were interested in furthering a charitable organization and contributing what talent they could to it. Further, the interest, as I understood it and it was represented to me, and the reason for these men attending was, because of their profession and because of the Boys ' Ranch having need for a fire station that they were particularly interested in contributing their services towards this effort. Isn' t that correct, Mr. Vogel? MR. VOGEL: Can I speak? MAYOR HOWELL: Yes, sir. MR. VOGEL: That is correct. That is correct and if you' ll allow me to expound on this -- do you want me around in front of you, Mr. Parks? MR. PARKS: That' s all right. MR. VOGEL: Let me say -- I want to predicate what Isay here that everything I say will be the truth. When I was made Chief of Police, here , I made up my { SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER �ttt JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 22 mind this was probably the last worthwhile job I'd ever have. And I was going to give it every effort to make it a good one. I served under two previous City Managers and on my return from vacation this summer I met with Mr. Bennett in this office and shook hands with him and congratulated him and sat down and told him if there was anything I could do to personally help him in any way, that he could count on me, and he said at that time, "Chief, the only thing I want at this time is to be sure of honesty," and I said, "Mr. Bennett, you have that assurance. " And I said, "If at any time you want anything done, you tell me. " And he said he would. Now, the first time that I learned that he objected to me conveying anything to the newspapers was on Monday morning. This past Monday morning. And I might mention in passing that there has been a lot of reference to me as Chief of Police in the papers relative to the PBA meeting in Jacksonville Beach that the Fraternal Order of Police are putting on a ball; these things I have not called to Mr. Bennett' s attention, personally. 5 I had no intention of going over his head or over the head of this Commission on any endeavor or obligating SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA ' I 1 23 this City in any capacity on my say-so. What Mr. Bagedonow just said as to this meeting at the Atlantic Beach Hotel, there was nothing finalized there . There was just sketchy, up-in-the-air plans of -- we didn' t even know whether it would be possible to secure the auditorium at this time. We were just starting this thing. It wasn't to be an Atlantic Beach Police and Fire Department endeavor. We wouldn' t attempt anything of this magnitude for such a small force . We were going to endeavor to engage the facilities of the entire county, City of Jacksonville, and any other fire department that would be interested. The Fraternal Order of Firemen, which is a state-wide organization, has been interested in establishing this fire station, and we had plans to engage their support. I wrote a letter to the Governor and I wish you would read it, Mr. Mayor. (Mr. Vogel hands letter to Mayor Howell. ) MR. VOGEL: This is his answer. MAYOR HOWELL: The letter is addressed to "Mr. R. C. Vogel. Chief of Police. Atlantic Beach Police Department. Atlantic Beach, Florida. SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 24 "Dear Bob: "Much to my regret, because of other commitments already scheduled for November 18, I am unable to accept your invitation to participate in the First Annual Florida Sheriffs Boys ' Ranch Fair to be held in Atlantic Beach. "To you and all those associated with you in this most meritorious project, I extend my heartiest congratulations and best wishes for a most successful fund-raising activity. "Certainly, it is a project which merits the support of all Duval County' s citizens. "With my kindest personal regards , I am "Sincerely yours, "Haydon. Governor." MR. GOODLING: Mr. Chairman, who is the Letter addressed to? MAYOR HOWELL: Mr. R. C. Vogel, Chief of Police, Atlantic Beach Police Department, 857 Seminole Road, Atlantic Beach, Florida . MR. GOODLING: Thank you. MR. VOGEL: As the last sentence in the Letter 1 indicated, it was to be a county-wide project. I' LL SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 25 answer any questions anybody wants to ask me. MR. BAGEDONOW: Chief, may I ask a question of the Chief, Mr. Mayor? MAYOR HOWELL: In this regard? MR. BAGEDONOW: Yes , sir. MAYOR HOWELL: Yes, I guess so. MR. BAGEDONOW: Mr. Vogel, at any time during this session, did I ask for any contribution from either you or the other gentlemen at the table? MR. VOGEL: No, sir. MR. BAGEDONOW: Did I place any qualifications on any help that I would give? In other words , did I offer my help in return for any favors ? MR. VOGEL: No, sir. MR. BAGEDONOW: That' s all. MAYOR HOWELL: Mr. Parks, you still have the floor. MR. PARKS: Mr. Mayor, I am not only fascinated but intrigued by the fact that some of the testimony and comment that has been offered by several individuals within the lat few minutes is quite contrary to what has been published in the local press concerning sponsorship and activity and endeavor. Is it possible that we have such poor reporting among the members of the SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 26 Fourth Estate? They're well-represented here tonight. ! MR. BAGEDONOW: Mr. Parks , would you quote that? Do you have the article where you would Like to quote where the differences are in the press? MR. PARKS: I've just been listening. MR. BAGEDONOW: No, but you just made a statement that what has been said here is in conflict with what ' s been in the press . Could you point out where it has been? MR. PARKS: The press reports that we have read -- MR. BAGEDONOW: May we hear the press report? There' s no allowance for supposition, no allowances for platitudes. Could we hear the article that you have reference to or is it going to be a weldon,Goodling and ii Park again, supporting incompetency which is what I've been contending all along. Mr. Mayor, May I have -- MAYOR HOWELL: Let' s keep it down to -- MR. PARKS: That might well be -- MAYOR HOWELL: Let ' s keep it down to the facts. MR. PARKS: I didn' t bring a stack of newspapers with me thiAs evening, Mr. Mayor , but I'm sure I'm not the only one that reads the local press . And there may have been articles that I didn' t read. But the several it SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 27 that I read referred to this effort being sponsored by the Atlantic Beach Police and Fire Departments . MAYOR HOWELL: Any other comments, Mr. Parks? MR. PARKS: No more at the moment. MAYOR HOWELL: Mr. Holloway? Is there anyone else in the audience who wishes to .peak specifically on these matters? MR. OLSON: May I? George Olson. I think that the whole situation derived out of a premature press release. We've had these situations in the organization I work for and we have handled them and got together with the people involved, straightened it out, and notified the press that any releases would come through our office. I think the same situation prevails here. I don't think there' s anybody in this room who is not interested in the welfare of Atlantic Beach. And I think that the whole thing is just mushroomed, one thing on top of the other, and I think it' s a matter that can be worked out without any problems or anyone losing jobs or anything else. And if something happened in the press , these fellows working for the press , are under orders to build up this Beach section and get a hold of something that is newsworthy and it comes out. And I think that it is SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 28 a situation that can be resolved within the Commission and that it' s something that has appeared in print and people take a different reaction to something that appears in print. Some people can brush right over it andcthers will say this is an endorsement by this group and I think the whole thing can be worked out, and i appeared in print and people are concerned about it, but I still think it' s a matter of a premature press release and that the people can sit down and dicsuss this thing and work it out without any problems in the future. I mean, I don' t know of any one employee or anybody else who was here in the City of Atlantic Beach who is not interested in the welfare, and it' s just a matter that these fellows are under instructions to build up this beach section in the newspaper and the situation developed which was news in the opinion of the writer and iI the opinion of many people who read it, but I think it' s something that can be worked out within the Commission and j� with the press , and there should be no problem within all these departments . I don' t think anyone is trying to overshadow anyone else and I think you're all working for Atlantic Beach. MR. WEISTER: Mr. Mayor, ogt. Weiser, United States Air Force Recruiter for the Beaches . I'm here today as 1 SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE. FLORIDA 29 a taxpayer of Atlantic Beach. I'm here today to find out two things . First of all, the Sheriffs and the Chief of Police have occasion of a Boys ' Ranch in Duval County. I don' t realize what you people realize because I'm a recruiter that will get your sons . But did you realize that on the beaches 237. of the men are ineligible to join the United States Air Force because of juvenile delinquency? 39% of them are ineligible to join the United States Air Force because they do not have the education. Now, I'm not here to preach Air Force, but if the Chief, over here, with his advocates, with Dale Carson, downtown, can get a Boys' Ranch started, I'm for it a hundred per cent. I'm 49 years old and I want to see the kids get a break. I also say this; I am a taxpayer and any man that comes out against the Chief of Police, without advocation, I have one question to ask him: Is he a taxpayer? And I mean that, Mr . Bennett. When you pay taxes on this beach at $8500 a year, then you come down and talk to me. I'm for the Chief of Police of this beach because Atlantic Beach has the lowest juvenile delinquency rate of the three beaches , believe me. And Jacksonville Beach has the highest. I don' t wish to say that, but I SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 30 want to go on the record that I want to see this project go forward so that your kids in this place can step forth and join a service without going through an FBI investigation to see if they can make it . MAYOR HOWELL: Sergeant, we appreciate your comments . Let me get one or two things straight, right quick before -- MR. WEISER: I'm not recruiting. MAYOR HOWELL: No. I, no one is attacking the Chief of Police. MR. WEISER: I don't want it to be in the record as that. MR. BAGEDONOW: Mr. Mayor, how can you say that when the Chief of Police is under censorship? You can sit there and this man is restricted because he ' s an employee of you people sitting behind the table and he' s directly subservient to Mr. Bennett . How can you sit there and say nobody is attacking him? MAYOR HOWELL: I don' t think there has been an attack on Chief Vogel' s abilities as to the job he' s doing as Chief of Police. MR. BAGEDONOW: Isn' t it an attack on his judgment, Mr. Mayor? Wouldn' t you say that? How would you classify it? Besides sweeping it under the table, how SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 31 would you classify it? What kind of attack would you call it? MAYOR HOWELL: The only thing is that there has been no attack on the Boys ' Ranch. MR. WEISER: It' s the manner he' s going at, sir. MAYOR HOWELL: And I think everybody is certainly 100% in favor of the Boy' s Ranch and similar organizations. MR. BAGEDONOW: Everyone is for God and country, but Let' s sweep it away and do it our way; that' s Mr. Bennett' s attitude. MAYOR HOWELL: Give your name. MR. SENF : Chet Senf, S-e-n-f. I think the question is whether the City Manager has the right to require City employees, acting in their individual capacity, to submit all news releases through him. If they are acting in their individual capacity, the mere fact that they are City employees, as a group, does not automatically submit them to his censorship and control. MAYOR HOWELL: We' re going back, again, to this news release. MR. BAGEDONOW: Mr. Mayor, Mr. Bennett is City Manager, he' s supposed to know the charter. Why don't we see if he knows anything about the charter and see where II SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 32 it is in the charter . He' s never read it. MAYOR HOWELL: I'm speaking at the moment. The actual order, apparently, has been that Mr. Bennett instructed the Police and Fire Departments not to give out news releases other than day-to-day happenings, that is, whose house burned down and who ran into who and who hit who over the head. MR. SENF: If they are acting in their individual capacity as citizens , the mere fact that as a group they all appear to be City employees donating their services to the Boys' Ranch does not automatically make them subject to his control. MAYOR HOWELL: If this is true, I think the question is their capacity of policemen or firemen. MR. THOMPSON: I (laughter) Would you restate the question to the City Attorney? MR. SENF: If the members of the Fire Department and the Police Department are acting in their capacity as citizens in donating their services to the Boys' Ranch, not in their official capacity as City employees , are they still subject to the control of the City Manager in news releases? MR. THOMPSON: Wherever their acts affect the City, they would be. SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 11 . i 33 MR, SENF: All right, in this case did their actions affect the City? MR. THOMPSON: I don't know. (Laughter) MR. MORSE: Roland Mise. I may be oversimplifying it, but there is a question I want to ask. Is there such a thing as an organization chart, a job description, that clearly Lays out the responsibilities and authorities of the employees of the City of Atlantic Beach? MAYOR HOWELL: Basically, yes. 2 MR. Imo: Authority and responsibility? MAYOR HOWELL: Basically, yes , we have a personnel ordinance and then we have a charter and there are coverages in each one . Now, the charter does not break down into -- as many classifications as the personnel ordinance. MR. M8&3E: They should be capable of avoiding conflicts that possibly verge on personalities , then, job responsibility, and job authority ought to clarify most of the problems that have been heard here today, Shouldn't it? MAYOR HOWELL: I don' t know. (Laughter) MR, BAGEDONOW: Mr. Mayor -- SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA !i l 34 MAYOR HOWELL: Just a moment. We have someone over here. Mr. Ward. MR. WARD: George ward, Atlantic Beach. There' s just a couple of words I'd like to say. I think what Mr. Bennett has on his mind all along is simply a chain of 7 command and tried to coordinate the activities here in the community. Now, this gentleman, Mr. Bagedonow -- my apology if I mispronounce your name -- but you referred earlier to the fact that these Qfitieers in the department were not representing the City when they appeared at the dinner you're speaking of. The fact remains they wouldn't have been at the dinner if they hadn't been officers of the City or members of the Fire Department. They wouldn't have been there at all, so they had to have some connection with the City or, apparently, they wouldn't be there . And I don' t think you can make a distinction in their capacities on that particular evening, and I think that' s what Mr. Bennett has in mind, too . Now, as to the membership in the swimming pool, I don' t take that too seriously and I don' t think there can possibly be anything suggested improper about it, but what we' re trying to do in this State, now, and in this community, now, is to get away from anything that would SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 35 reflect on any individual serving the public community. And that, I think, is what Mr. Bennett has in mind, that he wants to get away from any gratuities or gifts or prizes or what you want to call it, that could possibly tie a man' s hands in any way whatsoever or reflect on him or on the community. And I believe that' s the reason that he had in mind trying to discontinue that practice at the hotel or wherever else it might have existed in the community. Those are the two things Mr. Bennett has in mind, here, and in quoting these restrictions we' re talking about. MR. WEISER: Mr. Mayor -- MAYOR HOWELL: Yes , sir. MR. WEISER: Does Mr. Ward mean that Mr. Bennett is going to move out of the Club-By-The-Sea into the taxpaying land Like we own? MAYOR HOWELL: Anyone else that has any comments to make? iI Mr. GoodLing, did you want to talk to Mr. Thompson? MR. GOODLING: Might I be excused? MR. BAGEDONOW: Mr. Mayor. MAYOR HOWELL: Yes , sir. MR. BAGEDONOW: We 've heard what Mr. Bennett thinks through somebody else and Mr. Bennett doesn' t Look like SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 7 36 Charlie McCarthy to me . He's sitting up there . Why can' t we get an interpretation from Mr. Bennett as to what he meant in both of these instances? Why can't we -- Mr. Bennett, as City Manager, it' s correct to assume that the gentleman who appointed Mr. Bennett, and Mr. Bennett, in accepting his position, felt that he was qualified. Now, a qualified man should have a knowledge of his job . If Mr. Bennett is qualified and if these gentlemen have the confidence in Mr. Bennett to appoint him, I'm sure that they' ll have no objection to Mr. Bennett quoting from sections of the Personnel Code or quoting from sections of the City Charter, justifying his stand. And I'm sure Mr. Bennett, if he knows his job , and if he issued these with full knowledge of their import , has no objection to telling us where the foundation of the authority lay and how he is justified in asking this. I have a further question which I think is relative for Mr. Bennett and it is that -- it' s my understanding of city management and it' s consistent all the way through the municipalities in the area, in the county, as well as the City of Jacksonville, that the City Manager require a report from the Police Department each day enumerating every police call, enumerating all instances and procedures that have occurred in the Police and Fire Department. It' s my SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 37 understanding that Mr. Bennett doesn't require this kind of a report -- MAYOR HOWELL: You' re getting off the subject. MR. BAGEDONOW: No, it's relevant, Mr. Mayor -- MAYOR HOWELL: It' s not the purpose of this meeting. MR. BAGEDONOW: Mr. Mayor, if this report had been in existence and if there was something relevant, it would have been on the report. How else is somebody to inform the City Manager if there is no system of reports? MAYOR HOWELL: No, not necessarily, because it seems there may be some misunderstanding as to the chief of police' s sphere of authority and, therefore -- MR. BAGEDONOW : Could Mr. Bennett give us his interpretation, here, in front of all of us because he' s supposed to be knowledgeable? Mr. Parks, are we going to hide this man' s ignorance, again, by not allowing him to answer a question? MR. PARKS: Mr. Mayor, the legality of Mr . Bennett' s action in regard to the gratuities has not been challenged, No. 1. No. 2, I, as a taxpaying citizen, think he is entirely within his rights and I endorse his action. I { want that distinctly understood. MR. BAGEDONOW: Mr. Mayor, could the City Manager SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER 1i JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 38 answer those questions? Could he define the Personnel. Code and the City Ordinances for us with regard to this? MAYOR HOWELL: I can' t speak for him. I don't think anybody should. MR. CONNELLY: You should; you're the mayor. MAYOR HOWELL: I can' t define it. I know the job of the Chief of Police; I know the job of the City Clerk, and the job of virtually everybody in here, but I can't tell you exactly. MR. CONNELLY: Joe Connelly. You are going to Lead our beach into consolidation with Jacksonville Beach with a man like this and we run one off. MAYOR HOWELL: We're off of the subject. MR. CONNELLY: We always are, Billy. MAYOR HOWELL: Wait a minute. MR. CONNELLY: We 've got a good police department. MAYOR HOWELL: Now, Look, wait a minute. This thing was called tonight for one thing, to alleviate certain articles that came out in the newspaper. MR. CONNELLY: Yes , sir. MAYOR HOWELL: Which apparently were either misunderstood by the press or by some of the people concerned or by some of the people who received the • orders and this thing was mushrooming. This meeting is SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA i I 39 for no other purpose. MR. BAGEDONOW: Let Mr. Bennett clarify; that ' s what we' re asking for, Mr. Mayor. Let Mr. Bennett answer where his authority Lays . Let Mr. Bennett tell us about 8 it . MR. CONNELLY: I've seen the Chief of Police arrest teenagers here, and it' s got to be a joke because the teenagers got back to the beach before our Chief of Police got back here. The same ones that live right here in Atlantic Beach. Then we get a new City Manager in here. We had one that was underpaid. We begged him to stay here for two or three years and he got along just fine with our Chief of Police we had. We begged him -- you forced him to stay here, Billy, for two or three years, and we hire a new one and he wants to run him off. MAYOR HOWELL: I don't think that is it at all. Mr. 1 Bennett is the Director of Public Safety. MR. CONNELLY: Yes , sir . MAYOR HOWELL: Now, the Director of Public Safety, according to the charter, is supervisory head of the Fire and Police Departments . MR. CONNELLY: Right. MAYOR HOWELL: In this capacity, he sets up certain criteria, certain policy matters that the Police SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 40 Department is to follow. Now, if in the -- and I 'm not going to use the word "Mr. Bennett ," I 'm going to use the words" In the judgment of the Director of Public Safety, " whoever he may be, if he deems it necessary to request or demand , order or direct , whatever you want to call it , that news releases , all or portions of them, be funneled through him, he 's within his authority to do so, as I see it . MR. CONNELLY: I think so. MAYOR HOWELL: But likewise, if Mr. Bennett -- beg your pardon, if the Director of Public Safety, whoever he may be , feels that if a man belongs to a club, whether on an honorary or gratuitous basis , whatever you want to call it, if this is not in the best interest of the City, in his opinion, he certainly has a right to say so. MR. CONNELLY: I think the man should do it in a diplomatic way. I don ' t think he ought to bring out City right now at the crisis of time when we are fighting this business of joining up with Jacksonville Beach, for him to bring something out by our Chief of Police. I think we 've got a nice, little town. I 'm proud of it . MAYOR HOWELL: I don 't -- MR. CONNELLY: And Billy, I 'm going to tell you, right now, if you don 't mind me speaking, what we 're talking SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE. FLORIDA 41 about , right now, is we 've tried to help the kids in this Beach. This man, the Chief of Police, has fought for the kids of this Beach ever since he 's been in office . He 's fighting right now for a ranch. I can remember, Billy, about seven, eight years ago, when I approached you for a donation to Little League. You told me that you couldn' t help us because of the same thing -- as buying golf clubs for your kid and charging it to the City . MAYOR HOWELL: That ' s correct . MR. CONNELLY: Isn 't that right? MAYOR HOWELL: That 's correct . MR. CONNELLY: But right now you've got a Little League Park down there and it ' s all on account of that man right there. MR. PARKS: No. MAYOR HOWELL: No, I don' t know about that . MR. CONNELLY: But you have never helped us and then we get a man in here that starts killing a man that ' s trying to help this Beach. Am I right , Billy? Didn 't you tell me that? (Laughter) MR. CONNELLY: You told me that . { MR. BAGEDONOW: Mr. Mayor, I asked three questions SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE. FLORIDA 42 and I still haven' t gotten an answer. I 'd like to know, again, for the public record, for the Press , that Mr. Goodling did not call my employers ' office to try to influence my not being here tonight; that ' s No. 1 . No. 2 , I ask for Mr . Bennett, not for Mr. Parks or Mr. Goodling, to answer, himself, and to tell us what the Personnel Code contains . What the City Charter contains . What knowledge he has and what background he has 'in management of cities that qualifies him to have issued these two edicts and I would like to know, Mr. Mayor, on what grounds initially, and how Mr. Bennett was appointed and whether or not you voted for him at that time? MAYOR HOWELL: That has nothing to do with the meeting tonight . Mr. Bennett can certainly say anything he wants to say. So far as sitting up and attempting to quote the charter, I helped write the charter. I couldn 't begin to quote it . As far as the Personnel Ordinance is concerned, I helped write it . I couldn 't begin to quote it . MR. BAGEDONOW: Mr. Mayor, if you had made a state- ment and written a letter two days ago, wouldn't you have referred to that section and if you referred to it two SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 43 days ago, is there anybody here so feeble-minded that they can' t remember what they referred to two days ago when they wrote a letter and they must have had some basis , in fact , when they wrote that letter, some basis and authority . Now, is the basis of authority Goodling, Weldon and Parks or is there something in the charter that allows Mr . Bennett to make the statements and write the letters and issue the statements to the Press? MAYOR HOWELL: Well , we' re talking about these two releases and I thought I got it fairly well clear a minute ago that the Director of Public Safety, in my opinion, this is within the realm of his responsibility. MR. BAGEDONOW: It 's in the realm of his responsibility through your interpretation, Mr. Mayor, that he can impose censorship. Would you answer for the Press , Mr. Mayor, whether or not it is your interpretation of our City Charter that the City Manager, who is appoint- ed and is a City employee, cnn impose censorship? Is that the interpretation you want to give us? MAYOR HOWELL: No; no, I don 't say that. MR. BAGEDONOW: Well , then, what do you say? MR. CONNELLY: Why don't you let him speak, Billy, you can' t tell him not to. SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 44 (Laughter) MR. CONNELLY: Hell , you are just the Mayor. A VOICE: Is this drive going to continue for the Boys ' Ranch? MAYOR HOWELL: I beg your pardon? A VOICE: Is the Boys Ranch organization still going to go through? MR. CONNELLY: No. MAYOR HOWELL: I haven' t heard anybody say it couldn ' t . MR. CONNELLY: The City Manager said he can ' t talk. MR. WEISER: He ' s handicapped . MR. CONNELLY: You hired him, how come he can' t speak? (Laughter) MAYOR HOWELL: Mr. Bennett made a statement at the beginning of the meeting. MR. WEISER: He referred to the newspaper. MR. BAGEDONOW: Yeah, he had somebody read a newspaper article that I wrote. How about him opening his mouth? 9 y (Laughter) MR. BAGEDONOW: He ' s been able to open his mouth when he wanted special privileges for himself when he SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA i o 45 wants some privilege. Why can' t he open his mouth, now? MAYOR HOWELL: Mr. Longo. MR. LONGO: Mr . Mayor, incidentally, I 'd like to state that I also am a heavily overburdened taxpayer of over $8,500 in Atlantic Beach for the record. But I think this thing has developed into a personality clash between two people, No. 1 , an ex-employed hotel manager, as of today, I 'm sure, and our City Manager, Mr. Bennett. Mr. Bennett wasn't hired. He was elected by the Board of this City, by the City Commissioners and they are, in turn, elected by the citizens of this Beach who come to this City Hall and vote them in office and, I think, it ' s their responsibility, if they choose to have Mr. Bennett serve as a City Manager, whether it 's good, bad or indifferent, it is their responsibility and it ' s our responsibility of electing these gentlemen to do this job . Now, I think the program of the Boys Ranch has become irrelevant . I don't think that this at the time, now, in answer to the lady 's question is the paramount point , nor do I think the reputation of Chief Vogel is at stake . I think Chief Vogel has done a marvelous job as well as the other members of his staff; that is not the question. The question is , is Mr. Bennett allowed SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 46 to do his job and I say, again, as a taxpayer and citizen of the City, that he is because he is head of those departments . Now, I don' t think Mr. Bennett is vindictive to the Chief of Police nor do I think there is a great deal of friction in prohibiting this man to do his job . I think the possibility of Chief Vogel carrying on extra- curricular activities , above and beyond his normal realm of job, is very possible and that, again, is probably on Chief Vogel 's own personal time but once this City addresses a letter to any other City or to any other municipality, you direct it to a Chief Vogel or Chief Smith or Chief Jones of somebody, and that is the City of Atlantic Beach. And at any time that the Chief of Police goes to a function, he goes as a Chief of Police of Atlantic Beach, not as Mr. Robert Vogel . And that is not the way that letter was addressed from Haydon Burns , the Governor. And these things have to be distinguished between what is the legal responsibility of this City Council, of the Mayor, of the Chief of Police, against something that is obviously a personal battle between two people. I , for one, have sat here and heard people ask Mr. Bennett to quote the charter. Well, I think this is stupid because nobody can quote any charter. I doubt SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER IIJACKSONVILLE. FLORIDA 47 seriously if there is a person in this room that can quote the Constitution and we 're all citizens . So how can this enter into the matter of the so-called premature press release of October the 5th? I can ' t see where there is any bearing; I think Mr. Bennett did his job. (Applause) MAYOR HOWELL: Yes, Mr. Connelly? MR. CONNELLY: I ' ll be honest with you. I didn ' t vote for a damn one of them. (Laughter) • I ' ll tell you something. I 've been here for 19 years and this is the first time we have ever had a Chief of Police and a Fire Department which was decent , and when you start picking on our Chief of Police and our Fire Department -- I don' t know how long you've been here. MR. LONGO: I 've been here five years and I love every bit of it . MR. CONNELLY: You've got a lot to go; 19 years . MR. LONGO: That might be 14 years longer than me . MAYOR HOWELL: This is all irrelevant. Do you want to stick to the subject or don' t you? MR. CONNELLY: I didn' t vote for you, Billy. (Laughter) I still think we 've got the best Fire Department and SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 48 Chief of Police in the land . MAYOR HOWELL: That 's a fine opinion. MR. CONNELLY: We can' t have a stranger come in here and run us out . MAYOR HOWELL: That is your opinion . MR. CONNELLY: I 've been here long enough. MAYOR HOWELL: I was born in Duval County. MR. CONNELLY: I mean at the Beach. MAYOR HOWELL: Mr. Sony. MR. : I live here in Atlantic Beach. I 'm also a heavy taxpayer and probably exceed these fellows in taxes . I 'd like to ask a question. Are the City officers and Fire and Police Department still maintaining their privileges at the Atlantic Beach Hotel? Do they still get that free? MAYOR HOWELL: In the Atlantic Beach Hotel? MR. : In the pool, wherever they are allowed to go over there free. MR. BAGEDONOW: No, sir; they have been forced to fI resign. MAYOR HOWELL: I can' t speak for the Chief of Police . If you're asking me, I still have a card that says I can go to theool if I P � want to go to the pool . I had a charge when Charlie Adams owned it and at the Chateau and it SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 49 at the Sea Turtle. MR. CONNELLY: You ought to give it up. MAYOR HOWELL: When my bill comes out , I pay it . Sometimes on time and sometimes late. MR. SONY: I take it the former manager, if I may so state, says that he ' s been here going on 18 or 20 years when we were given free membership; that 's when we were a township not a city. We have grown . We have a city and I think that what anybody -- whether it be the Police Chief, Fire Chief or anybody else -- if they get any complimentary membership cards , it creates in the mind of the public some type of obligation that they �1 would owe back when they 're getting something free, favors at certain times . And I think it ought to be I discontinued for the sake of clearing the people ' s mind because I 've been around three-score years and I 've never gotten nothing for nothing. I 've had to work for LO everything I 've had. MAYOR HOWELL: Does anyone else have anything to say? MR. CONNELLY: I think they ought to raise their pay so they can join it . MAYOR HOWELL: Mr. Goodling? MR. GOODLING: Yes, sir, could I ask you -- it may SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE. FLORIDA 50 take a minute but I believe Mr. Bagedonow --- MR. BAGEDONOW: Speak louder. MR. GOODLING: I believe Mr.Bagedonow made a charge on three different occasions relating to an alleged phone call between myself and Mr . Winston. Would you find those three, if I 'm correct, and read them back to me so I can hear -- there ' s been a bit of discussion since then . (Discussion off record) MAYOR HOWELL: Come to order, please . Mr. Goodling, you have a request to make? MR. GOODLING: Would you read that statement? (Reporter read what Goodling requested) MR. GOODLING: Mr. Chairman, I categorically deny that . MR. BAGEDONOW: Mr. Goodling, you deny you called Mr. Winston this morning? MR. GOODLING: Tr -.9� (4'1 t- -,c,62 cx- " MAYOR HOWELL: That ' s all . MR. GOODLING: I 'm through. MAYOR HOWELL: That ' s all . Mr. Parks , do }ou have anything additional to say? MR. PARKS: I have nothing more . MAYOR HOWELL: Mr. Holloway? SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 51 MR. HOLLOWAY: Nothing. MAYOR HOWELL: This meeting, I again tell you, was called for one purpose, to clarify the news release wherein a censorship, and I 'm quoting "A censorship" was put on the news . Now, this appears to have been cleared up in the article of October the 5th, 1966 in the Jacksonville Journal , wherein it states that this was pertaining only to those things that might affect the City as a whole, and that the City should be advised of them before they are so released . The other thing, which was about the Club memberships , which I think has been fully explained , this is the opinion of the Director of Public Safety, it is certainly within his prerogative to have such an opinion and issue such an order. Now, I assume that winds those two things up and that ' s that . And that 's what the meeting was called for . There is no censorship on news . That ' s all we have. Do you have a motion to adjourn? MR. PARKS: Move to adjourn. MAYOR HOWELL: Second the motion? MR. HOLLOWAY: Second the motion. MAYOR HOWELL: Meeting adjourned. (Whereupon, at 9: 25 P.M. , the meeting adjourned) SAM ROSENFELD STENOTYPE COURT REPORTER JACKSONVILLE. FLORIDA There being no further business Mayor Howell declared this special meeting of October 6th, 1966 adjourned. i , I 1A4 f .�L Wm. S. Ho - 11, Mayor- Commissioner Attest: 10-0 S /6' /<( Adele S. Grage, City Cle• 1