11-16-17 Minutes PPSARC MINUTES
PARKING AND PEDESTRIAN SAFETY ADVISORY RESOURCE
COMMITTEE MEETING
NOVEMBER 16, 2017— 6:00 PM
Commission Chamber
800 Seminole Road
Atlantic Beach
IN ATTENDANCE:
MEMBERS: STAFF:
Terry Essick Police Sergeant Lenny Jevic
Greg Kupperman Public Works Director Scott Williams
Paula O'Bannon Recording Secretary Joanie Bowman
Kim Reich
John Stinson, Chair
Michael Tari (Arrived 6:04 pm)
Dale Wappes
Nancy Whittington
Woody Winfree
ABSENT:
Jennifer Lagner
Dennis Winkelman(Absent)
Welcome and Introductions
Chair Stinson opened the meeting at 6:02 p.m. and introduced the Committee members.
Approval of Minutes
A. Approve minutes of the Parking and Pedestrian Safety Advisory Resource Committee
Meeting on November 2, 2017.
Chair Stinson asked if there were any corrections to the minutes.
Mr. Wappes inquired about the clarity of Ms. McCrary's comments during Courtesy of the Floor.
There was a brief discussion and Ms. McCrary clarified that she said, "If you are going to have
parking on the street where there are sidewalks, make it on the other side of the street". She
explained we have a problem with people blocking the sidewalks. She further explained she is
only speaking about First Street. The Committee agreed that she was asking that there be no
parking on First Street where there are sidewalks.
November 16, 2017 PARKING AND PEDESTRIAN SAFETY ADVISORY RESOURCE COMMITTEE MEETING
Ms. Winfree stated she did not see anything reflected in the minutes about the conversation
regarding over signage in the City. It is a value that many people have a feeling about and these
issues will be a part of the solution making process.
Chair Stinson inquired if Ms. Winfree would like to add that to the minutes and explained the
minutes are an overview of the meeting and are audio recorded and if anyone had a question about
them, they could refer back to the audio. He explained the Clerk's office does a really good job.
If you have something that you are particularly passionate about that you want to ensure makes
the minutes,preface your comment with"for the record"and that will go in the minutes verbatim.
Ms. Bowman explained the content in the minutes. Ms. Winfree decided it was not necessary to
modify the minutes.
Discussion ensued about the options for approving the minutes. Commissioner Stinson explained
we could have a motion to defer this for the next meeting and give clear direction as to what
information needs to be in the minutes.
Ms. Winfree requested that her point of view made earlier tonight regarding signage be reflected
in tonight's meeting minutes.
Motion: Approve minutes of the Parking and Pedestrian Safety Advisory Resource
Committee meeting on November 2,2017 as presented.
Moved by Tari, Seconded by Winfree
Motion Carried unanimously.
Courtesy of the Floor to Visitors
Pam McCrary, 226 First St., inquired about what they considered to be a low speed electric
vehicle. She has a street legal golf cart,but indicated there are some here at the beach that are not
street legal, meaning they do not have to be licensed or insured and the person driving it does not
have to have a driver's license. She commented that her street legal golf cart is as long as her
Toyota Prius and asked that they think about that when marking off spaces.
Sergeant Jevic explained if you start lowering parking spaces for smaller golf carts, cars will still
park there.
Mr. Wappes inquired what is considered street legal.
Sergeant Jevic responded anything that is operated on a state road in Florida has to have a tag and
go through inspections like any other vehicle. If they are not,they need to be ticketed and cited.
Paid Parking Solution
1.) Evaluate favorable parking rates for residents versus visitors relative to the impact
on beach dune restoration agreements.
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November 16, 2017 PARKING AND PEDESTRIAN SAFETY ADVISORY RESOURCE COMMITTEE MEETING
Chair Stinson reported that Mr. Bodge Coastal Engineer with Olsen and Associates called the City
this afternoon and said please do not have any conversations about preferential rates for residents
versus visitors to Atlantic Beach,because if you do you will forfeit your beach restoration funding.
Chair Stinson believed Mr. Bodge may have been under the impression that this Committee may
be taking action, which it cannot. Chair Stinson believed the Committee can discuss it,but wants
them to know it may be a brick wall they run into somewhere along the way with paid parking.
Ms. O'Bannon stated she understood this to mean residents will have to pay for parking too. Chair
Stinson stated according to Mr. Bodge that is correct, but they have not run that through our City
Attorney yet.
Ms. Whittington requested they get Mr. Bodge's comment in writing and the citing where that
comes from. She expressed the need to understand what equal access means and believed it should
be clearly defined in writing by Mr. Bodge. Chair Stinson stated he would send him an email and
get that to them as quick as he can.
Ms. Winfree reported hearing the same comment at a meeting she attended.
Discussion ensued about semi-annual or annual passes and parking in front of residences.
Ms. O'Bannon referred to a map of First Street and suggested several places where they could
place kiosks for parking and extend it further than Ahern Street.
Chair Stinson suggested including the Committee's suggestions in a recommendation.
2.) Low Speed Electric Vehicles Space Opportunities
Chair Stinson asked if there were any ideas of places to put parking for Low Speed Electric
Vehicles.
Mr. Wappes expressed concern that the State may have done away with smaller prescribed parking
widths and lengths. He suggested that if smaller spaces were allowed, you could make them
narrower as opposed to shorter, which would mean getting four spaces where we would normally
have three parking spaces. He inquired about using a different terminology rather than electric.
Mr. Tari explained he would like to see dedicated parking for electric vehicles to encourage people
to use them and charge a lower rate no matter where they park.
Discussion ensued about electric vehicles, charging stations and golf carts.
Ms. Whittington stated F.S. 320.01 defines low speed vehicles and golf carts and does not get into
gas versus electric. It addresses the low speed vehicles being the type that must be licensed and
have all the proper signaling and tag. Golf carts are shown as something totally separate and are
not licensed in Florida. She suggested referring to this law when they are clarifying things.
Ms. Whittington inquired about the City's definition of a parking place.
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November 16, 2017 PARKING AND PEDESTRIAN SAFETY ADVISORY RESOURCE COMMITTEE MEETING
Public Works Director Scott Williams reported a standard parking place is nine feet wide and a
standard handicap parking place is twelve feet wide, both with a length of eighteen feet,but if it is
parallel parking, then the length is twenty-two feet. He answered questions about designating
spaces and signage.
Ms. O'Bannon expressed concerns about parking issues on First Street explaining more driveways
have been added, curbs have been taken away, and additional cars are being used at the homes.
Mr. Wappes asked whether we are looking at Town Center issues or neighborhood issues.
Chair Stinson reported that the Commission approved moving forward with the parking system
for Town Center Monday night. There were a couple of minor changes to the recommendation.
The City Manager requested that rather than having the Police Department or Finance Director
involved, he had other people he wanted to meet with the City of Neptune Beach to get it moving
forward. He is aware of Neptune Beach's desire to have the parking system in place sometime in
March or April. Chair Stinson explained City staff's involvement.
There was a lengthy discussion about vehicle units, using the State of Florida's definition of a
vehicle,enforcement,availability and size of parking spaces for low speed vehicles,creating more
spaces and renourishment funding.
Beach Dune Restoration
Mr. Tari asked if creating more spaces would increase the beach renourishment money.
Public Works Director Mr. Williams stated he believes the money the State has budgeted is the
money that it takes to renourish our beach on a four or five-year term. He believed if a golf cart
stall is there and it can hold four people, then it counts as a car stall. If a bicycle rack will hold
four bicycles, it counts as a car.
Chair Stinson asked the Committee what information they need him to get.
Mr. Tari stated they need two pieces of information to understand beach renourishment:
1.) What does a golf cart and a motorcycle count as?
2.) If we identify more parking spaces, can we help our beaches by getting more funds?
There was a discussion about cost sharing, funding sources, providing correct information, and
the Interlocal Agreement with the City of Jacksonville/Duval County.
Ms. Whittington inquired what flexibility we have in effecting any of the parking within a quarter
of a mile of the beach which is where the problems are. She questioned whether to come up with
solutions if there is no flexibility.
Mr. Wappes recommended that they encourage the Town Center to come up with eight low speed
vehicle locations. The Committee agreed with his recommendation.
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November 16, 2017 PARKING AND PEDESTRIAN SAFETY ADVISORY RESOURCE COMMITTEE MEETING
Ms. Winfree wanted clarification about what our Commission approved recently. She reported on
a meeting she attended last week in Neptune Beach and expressed concerns about their progress,
responsibility, and use of the money.
Chair Stinson explained the status of the paid parking project and answered questions from the
Committee.
Chair Stinson asked the members to share their comments since they have had time to review the
maps.
Ms. Whittington believed they need clarity on the impact of beach renourishment first.
Mr. Tari reiterated his thoughts about needing two pieces of information to understand beach
renourishment. 1) What does a golf cart/low speed vehicle and a motorcycle count as? and 2) If
we identify more parking spaces, can we help our beaches by getting more funds?
Mr. Tari suggested putting the creep part aside.
Ms. Reich does not believe there needs to be kiosks in the creep areas but suggested having more
marked parking spaces on First, Second, and Third Street neighborhoods.
Mr. Kupperman believed they could come up with twenty-five to thirty parking spaces per road
from Sherry to Beach Avenue, First, Second, and Third Street. They should be marked and have
parking meters.
Mr. Essick suggested contracting with One Ocean for use of some of their parking spaces.
Mr. Tari spoke in favor of either marking the individual spaces or at least putting lines on where
you cannot park beyond the line, depending on whether marked spots are needed for beach
renourishment.
Ms. Winfree pointed out the space issues where there are four handicap parking spaces between
Ahern and Third Street. She spoke about neighborhood creep and the need to address employee
parking.
Ms. O'Bannon would like the kiosks to go further to the four parking spaces on Ocean Boulevard
and have First, Second and Third Street delineated out with lines on the road that are seven feet
from each driveway.
Mr. Wappes spoke about safety issues and the need to maintain the proper width of the street when
delineating parking spaces on the pavement.
Discussion ensued about ways to mark the parking spots and about concerns with property owners
taking over the rights-of-way.
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November 16, 2017 PARKING AND PEDESTRIAN SAFETY ADVISORY RESOURCE COMMITTEE MEETING
Public Works Director Scott Williams commented he is not in favor of making lines all over First,
Second and Third Street. He would rather see people park one wheel on the road and one wheel
on the right-of-way, and remove every rock and stump on the right-of-way to allow parking with
the exception of the eight streets which are identified in the Code as no parking.
Beach Dune Restoration
Chair Stinson stated one of the important things the Committee would like to accomplish is Item
3 of Beach Dune Restoration - the assignment of areas to Committee members for review, to
identify, inventory and improve beach parking opportunities.
Mr. Tari believed the Committee is staying on task since the first two items under Beach Dune
Restoration has been discussed throughout the meeting.
The Committee began an exercise assigning each member a specific area to inventory the parking.
Mr. Williams clarified that a legal straight in driveway cannot be over twenty feet wide and a
circular driveway cannot be over twelve feet wide, once it is beyond the three-foot apron.
The Committee reviewed a map and assignments were agreed to as follows:
Mr. Tari-Twentieth St. to Sixteenth St.
Mr. Wappes- Eighteenth St. to Thirteenth St.
Ms. Reich- Fourteenth St. to Eleventh St.
Mr. Kupperman-Fifth St. to Tenth St.
Ms. O'Bannon- Fifth St. to First St., Ahern St./Sturdivant Ave.
Chair Stinson explained there are three things to look for to determine available parking spaces:
1) Marked spaces
2) Unmarked spaces
3) Encroached upon spaces
Mr. Tari suggested they look for bike racks.
Mr. Wappes referred to the information Ms. Whittington put together (which is attached to this
Official Record as Attachment A) identifying valid parking and required parking and believes
the Committee should, wherever possible, look at her thought process and take her computations
into account. He suggested making a key out of it so that everyone is working the same. Ms.
Whittington confirmed that the information was sent to everyone earlier this week.
Calendar
Commissioner Stinson noted that they would not have a meeting on December 21st and asked if
they would prefer moving the December 7th meeting to December 6th. He requested that they send
him an email so he could get a count.
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November 16, 2017 PARKING AND PEDESTRIAN SAFETY ADVISORY RESOURCE COMMITTEE MEETING
Closing Comments
Mr. Whittington acknowledged that Ms. O'Bannon was appointed to another committee and
questioned whether she could serve on two. Chair Stinson reported his discussion with City Clerk
Bartle and City Attorney Durden. Ms. Durden will get back to him with an answer.
Mr. Wappes asked if Commissioner Stinson would be able to remain as Chair. Chair Stinson
reported there will be a discussion at the Commission meeting on November 27t.
Ms. O'Bannon asked Chair Stinson to let her know what he finds out from the City Attorney so
that she can decide which committee she wants to stay on if she cannot serve on both.
Adjournment
There being no further discussion, Chair Stinson declared the meeting adjourned at 8:22 PM.
4h/l
ATTEST: ommission r Stinson
Chair
Apivnia., ./AdAtze
Donna L. Bartle, CMC
City Clerk
Page 7 of 7
ATTACHMENT A
Minutes of 11-16-17
Bartle, Donna
From: Nancy Whittington <nvn202@juno.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 5:42 PM
To: jstinson@coab.us
Cc: wappes@bellsouth.net; dwinkworld@mac.com; gkupperman@200firststreet.com;
jenniferdeeryl@hotmail.com; kimreich@hotmail.com; TariHousehold@gmail.com;
misso@bellsouth.net;TERRY.ESSICK@yahoo.com;woodywinfree@gmail.com;
ljevic@coab.us; dbartle@coab.us; kHogencamp@coab.us;jgerrity@coab.us
Subject: Do not respond--for possible discussion on Thursday night
Dear fellow committee members: this is a one-way transmission of one perspective for our discussion, if we
choose to take this up at this level of detail Thursday night. Since our agenda has the beach nourishment on the
table, I offer this perspective. The Sunshine Law allows for a one-way blast of information to all members as
long as no one responds to this group email. Thanks. Nancy W
Parking coverage based on the maps received from Olsen Engineering Oct 19th :
Given the coastal rules found in the Florida Administrative Code, I would like to offer an approach to the beach
nourishment discussion. The rules are found at this link:
https://www.flrules.org/gateway/ChapterHome.asp?Chapter=62b-33
1. Hanna Park south to 20th is one half mile covered.
2. 20th to 19th covered if add bike racks
3. 18th shown as primary site with 1/2 mile coverage in two directions yet this access has no bathrooms. Need
to cut in half to reflect the 1/4 mile in one direction as a secondary access per the rules.
4. Coral thru 13th could be covered by 7 accesses with bike racks to cover the bases at 211.2 feet covered per
4-bike racks(each holding 4 bikes).
5. Adele Grage has a public bathroom and could be considered a primary site if run 1/2 mile north from
8th. Would run north to 13th from 8th Street.
6. 8th to Atlantic Blvd is 1/2 mile and is covered by the public bathroom in Town Center and the 200+parking
spaces for both AB and NB in both directions. Also the Olsen report did not include either the One Ocean
parking options or the JTA bus stop at A l A and Atlantic Blvd in their metrics.
If the goal is to cover the 2.08 miles of AB beach for sand placement,this could be done in a more equitable
manner for all parties.
Note: Using the map scale of 1/2 inch equaling 100 feet,the map starts 100 feet north of the AB City line with
Hanna Park and 250 feet south of the Atlantic Blvd. southern boundary of AB.
i